From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Mar 22 07:20:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88532 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2006 15:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2006 15:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2006 15:20:42 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM55W-0004nY-8H for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:17:30 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM53J-0004k7-8r; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:15:15 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM52r-0004iw-DH for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:14:45 -0800 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.195]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FM52o-0004iI-8l for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:14:45 -0800 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n29so181571nzf for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.153.6 with SMTP id a6mr1511069nze; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from caroe1 ( [65.218.132.157]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id c12sm1535406nzc.2006.03.22.07.14.39; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 07:14:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <06bc01c64dc3$3be85080$a0d2400a@caroe1> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:13:51 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-archive-position: 11210 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: betsemes@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Betsemes" From: "Betsemes" Reply-To: betsemes@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] A comment on one of my jboselkei translations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=6KWhlDSxrhCC2yfb5nSGi0p9QSJFJWRrg8ETI_xo38tf9s-BaA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25621 For the post "I saw a naked girl in a window of the opposite building this morning." I translated it as {mi viska lo lunbe nixli pa'o lo canko be lo ragve dinju ca le cabycerni} For this translation I got this comment from Matt Arnold: This could use a past tense tag, "pu". The spatial tag {pa'o} says the girl herself is transfixing the window, partially in and partially out. I think you want {ti'a}, "behind". The usage of {lo} means a generic quantity of all the windows in the world, but {le} would have meant one specific window which you are talking about. I have a question. I was under the impression that when we add a spatial tense followed by a sumti, we are really adding a tense sumti that applies to the entire bridi. So I thought that here {pa'o} applied to the event of seeing instead of applying to just one of the sumtis (the girl); and I was under the impression that in order for it to apply to the girl, it should have been written as {mi viska lo lunbe nixli pe pa'o lo canko be lo ragve dinju ca le cabycerni} thus associating the tense directly to the sumti. How is this incorrect? I also didn't think that a past tense tag was necessary because of the {ca le cabycerni} tense sumti. Am I wrong? To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.