From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Mar 27 08:54:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28558 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2006 16:54:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2006 16:54:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2006 16:54:40 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNuwC-0003Kv-4c for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:51:28 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNuuJ-0003JK-F0; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:49:34 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNutq-0003J6-Fv for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:49:02 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.236]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNutn-0003Ip-5b for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:49:02 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 37so1483857wra for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:48:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.80.7 with SMTP id d7mr3094698wrb; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.126.13 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:42:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560603270842p567d03faw108b925add61491@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:42:40 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20060327154859.32279.qmail@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560603270711v643ce24cy2506c096ec1e74d@mail.gmail.com> <20060327154859.32279.qmail@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11258 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes can define anything X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=iQX745RKGvCAtwu961B8Bgb25Oou5Upx9Rj3hPlWNVHRiTAPUw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25668 On 3/27/06, John E Clifford wrote: > > I have always thought the "opinion" part of > {jinvi} was peripheral in a sense; Given the x4 of {jinvi} (the "grounds") it is hard to see how it could be peripheral. > > I can > > think (pensi) of pigs flying > > without opining (jinvi) that pigs fly. > > But apparently you can't pensi of pigs flying; > there is no place for propositional content. mi pensi lo nu lo xarju cu vofli I think of an event of pigs flying. > Or > do you want that {pensi2} is for propositional > content (which would eliminate a raft of > problems)? No, I think pensi is fine as it is, but that it is not for opinions. > Yes; I think it has to be "something happens to > something." But again, in the absence of more > cases it is hard to be sure. I found this one, but I don't know if it's official: X feels sad = X feels something sometimes a person thinks something like this: "something bad happened if I didn't know that it happened I would say: 'I don't want it to happen' I don't say this now because I know: 'I can't do anything'" because of this, this person feels something bad X feels something like this So apparently things can HAPPEN without happening (explicitly) to something. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.