Message-ID: <06da01c64dd0$0d62c170$a0d2400a@caroe1>
References: <06bc01c64dc3$3be85080$a0d2400a@caroe1> <200603221115.38252.phma@phma.optus.nu>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:45:37 -0400
Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
From: "Betsemes" <lojban-out@lojban.org>
Reply-To: betsemes@gmail.com
Subject: [lojban] Re: A comment on one of my jboselkei translations
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Pierre, that's something that was bugging me for a while; how be and pe
differ from each other when used in these constructions. Thanks.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pierre Abbat" <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: <lojban-list@lojban.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject: [lojban] Re: A comment on one of my jboselkei translations


> On Wednesday 22 March 2006 10:13, Betsemes wrote:
> > I have a question. I was under the impression that when we add a spatial
> > tense followed by a sumti, we are really adding a tense sumti that
applies
> > to the entire bridi. So I thought that here {pa'o} applied to the event
of
> > seeing instead of applying to just one of the sumtis (the girl); and I
was
> > under the impression that in order for it to apply to the girl, it
should
> > have been written as {mi viska lo lunbe nixli pe pa'o lo canko be lo
ragve
> > dinju ca le cabycerni} thus associating the tense directly to the sumti.
> > How is this incorrect?
>
> {mi viska lo nixli pa'o lo canko} means that the seeing goes through the
> window. {mi viska lo nixli be pa'o lo canko} and {mi viska lo nixli pe
pa'o
> lo canko} both mean that the girl is through the window. The last two
> constructions differ in meaning when the selgadri itself denotes an action
> that can go through something:
> {mi viska lo renro pa'o lo canko}: A window is between me and a thrower,
and I
> see the thrower through it.
> {mi viska lo renro be pa'o lo canko}: Someone throws something through a
> window, and I see him.
> {mi viska lo renro pe pa'o lo canko}: Someone is caught in a window, and I
see
> him throw something.
> {mi viska lo renro be pa'o lo canko be'o pe pa'o lo canko pa'o lo canko}:
I
> see someone through the window throw something through the window through
the
> window.
>
> > I also didn't think that a past tense tag was necessary because of the
{ca
> > le cabycerni} tense sumti. Am I wrong?
>
> It isn't necessary. It isn't necessary even without it; tense is optional
in
> Lojban.
>
> phma
>
>
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