From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Mar 26 14:20:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33996 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2006 22:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2006 22:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2006 22:20:32 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNdb4-0004jV-Rl for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:20:31 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNdaY-0004iM-E4; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:19:59 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:19:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNda8-0004i6-1s for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:19:32 -0800 Received: from web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.123]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FNda7-0004hy-49 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:19:31 -0800 Received: (qmail 45641 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Mar 2006 22:19:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20060326221929.45639.qmail@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.183.14] by web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:19:29 PST Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:19:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560603260755l6f9f865dg15ba241eb023da41@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-archive-position: 11251 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes can define anything X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=6RZxf8_oW2vpSObk0dQDp9ZfVkNJKSTY-YWungcEiIx-HACbwA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25661 --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 3/25/06, John E Clifford > wrote: > > Yeah, "emotion" was a bad choice of word, > > probably generated because so many of the > > definitions in which FEEL appears are about > > emotions. Your characterization is better. > But > > the essential thing is to note that it does > not > > cover "feel that" constructions. > > The essential thing in this context was that > the > prime FEEL does not have a Lojban equivalent, > that > Lojban splits this prime in two: {cinmo} and > {ganse}. Well, neither of them fits very well: {cinmo} is explicitly about emotions, with the rpoblems noted; {ganse} wants a stimulus. How does one say "I feel (something) bad"? > Other primes that Lojban seems to split are for > example THINK into {pensi} and {jinvi}, this seems to be clearly {jinvi} "think something about something," there is some discussion of a need to divide it into "think something" and "think about." Incidentally, why does Lojban have two words here? HAPPEN > into {fasnu} and {se lifri} Mainly {se lifri} the line seems laways to be "Something happens to something." and probably KNOW > into > {djuno} and {se slabu}. I can't find a {se slabu} case, but I have a list of only a couple dozen cases. Not to mention the very > problematic HAVE. It seems to be the minimal "alienable use" sense (which Lojban doesn't do to well), but I can't find an example of it. > I don't know what the Spanish prime > corresponding > to YOU is either. There are four candidates: > "tú", "usted", "ustedes" and "vosotros", and > it's hard > to say that there are no conceptual differences > among > them. I think it has to be "usted," but again, I don't have a case. > So the primes seem to fit English very well but > other > languages not so well. Well, it fits English well in the sense that there are English expressions that do (sometimes) mean what is intended here (but it presumably fits Spanish in that way two, else some of these "primes" would clearly not be primes). The problem is that all the English expressions are polysemous and it is hard to pick out the right one and be sure to use only it. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.