From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Mar 17 15:27:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83162 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2006 23:27:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2006 23:27:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2006 23:27:53 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FKOJ8-0007re-Re for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:24:35 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FKOHi-0007qT-Jq; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:23:07 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FKOHI-0007qK-8h for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:22:40 -0800 Received: from web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FKOHH-0007qC-Ac for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:22:40 -0800 Received: (qmail 6495 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2006 23:22:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20060317232237.6492.qmail@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.183.14] by web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:22:37 PST Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:22:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560603171301w71378637w10d8d846c6ff783e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-archive-position: 11163 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=2eK9RpN237urTfm_ROT-opZSstTe-LyN2y5KNU9DRGg51KNe5g X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25572 I think it is important to stress the "in frame of reference" version of x3, especially if the "facing" version is creating problems. But how do we say a frame of reference? --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 3/17/06, John E Clifford > wrote: > > Presumably, {pritu} serves both to locate an > > object (x1) in relation to a sided object > which > > also has a directional orientation possible > (x2) > > and then tries to coordinate that with an > > external position. > > If the reference point serves both as > positional reference > and as orientation reference (as is often the > case) > it can be repeated in x2 and x3, no problem: > > le bersa cu zutse bu'u lo pritu be le patfu > (bei ri) > The son sits at the right of the father (from > the father's viewpoint). > > Other schemes, that try to make x2 both the > positional and the > orientation reference, and x3 something else > that plays with x2 > to get it to be an orientation reference, are > so full of complications > that I don't think it's worth even bothering > with them. > > I hope people will keep saying things like: > > le blanu bolci cu pritu le xunre bolci mi > "The blue ball is to the right of the red ball > from my point to view." > > and just ignore the x2 facing x3 complications. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to > http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to > secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.