From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Mar 28 08:42:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98023 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2006 16:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2006 16:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2006 16:42:32 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FOHGu-0006Z2-Vy for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:42:21 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FOHGT-0006YK-JT; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:54 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FOHG4-0006Y3-4V for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:28 -0800 Received: from web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.117]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FOHG2-0006Xu-85 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:27 -0800 Received: (qmail 78204 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Mar 2006 16:41:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20060328164125.78202.qmail@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.183.14] by web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:24 PST Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:41:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560603280754h6029b7f1k4e86efaaa9c29058@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-archive-position: 11268 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes can define anything X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=EnMURFMjXFSRAGEpfIvlSBSu95udqjzzNy6kv8l0avRvvv7Tjg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25679 --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 3/28/06, John E Clifford > wrote: > > > > So the difference between {krici} and {jinvi} > is > > the evidence place? > > As far as I can tell, that's the only > difference, yes. > > > Having the opinion is not > > extramental but to be an opinion it must > involve > > reference to an extramental situation > (except, of > > course, opinions about mental situations). > > If you except the cases when it need not, then > yes, it must. :) Well, those aren't really exception to the general idea, they are just thrown in because that idea got expressed as "extramental." > > > {pensi} lacks the belief component of > {jinvi}, > > > so you would need some other way to get > that in, either > > > {jinvi} or {krici} or something else. > > > > The belief component is what I called > > affirmation, I think. Yes, that has to be > added, > > like the truth component to get {djuno} -- > > actually that requires both. > > I wonder how NSM paraphrases "X believes Y" > (perhaps > "X thinks that Y is true"?) and once it gets > that, why it can't > also get a suitable paraphrase for KNOW > (something like > "Y is true and X thinks that Y is true" and > probably a couple > more things?). Historically, it has been those couple more things, usually summed up as "X is justified in this belief," that have been the hard part (no one has a generally accepted version that can be made to work in practice). To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.