From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Apr 26 16:54:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2018 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2006 23:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2006 23:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2006 23:52:39 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FYtoB-0002K4-ID for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:52:35 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FYtnE-0002It-Vq; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:51:37 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FYtmn-0002Ii-Pu for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:51:09 -0700 Received: from web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FYtml-0002Ib-QZ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:51:09 -0700 Received: (qmail 51960 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2006 23:51:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20060426235106.51958.qmail@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.186.84] by web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:51:06 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:51:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <925d17560604261624k4a322621v907490d5265abe56@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-archive-position: 11342 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: About jboselkei reviews X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=eEodeVBNGl5H67XvAd6Z-i3rttxFtRC5kXPlLdrwVImkgvTBZw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25757 While I am not sure I agree with the arguments in toto, I agree with at least a weak form of the conclusion. There is no need for a modal version of {kakne}. There further should be a modal version of {cumki}. It would be nice to convince some higher power to shift {ka'e} in that way (appearance notwithstanding). Alas, rising twenty years has been unable to do so (and maybe more; I think this problem was around already in Loglan). (We need the dual, "it is necessary that" as well, but that is barely available even as a predicate.) --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 4/26/06, komfo,amonan > wrote: > > > > From the definitions I gather that {ka'e} is > restricted to innate ability > > while {kakne} refers to ability innate or > learned. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan > > The problem with that definition is that {ka'e} > applies to a selbri, and > it doesn't make much sense to say that a > relationship has innate > capabilities. > > What would {le mlatu ka'e kavbu le smacu} mean? > That the cat is innately capable of catching > the mouse, > that the mouse is innately capable of being > caught by the > cat, that they are both innately capable of > being in the > {kavbu} relationship? And the trap/restraint > x3, does it also > have to be innately capable? What if one of the > arguments is > not something that can have innate > capabilities, would {ka'e} > not be usable then? > > {jinzi kakne} is better for "innate > capability", and there it is > perfectly clear whose innate capability we are > talking about. > It is not something that comes up very often > anyway, so it > hardly needs to be done with a cmavo. > > {ka'e} just cannot be about capabilities, be > they innate or learned. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to > http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to > secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.