From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue May 23 06:10:50 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 23 May 2006 06:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FiWed-00082C-1Y for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 23 May 2006 06:10:31 -0700 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FiWea-000824-L2 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 23 May 2006 06:10:30 -0700 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id j40so1374092ugd for ; Tue, 23 May 2006 06:10:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Zs1Nip1Nl2qzLpTO0cwPcuPeIumd6NbtJ91OJktO0gJDs31ZrXxVUYGashdTWOEVUOzB2jDX6jP6pNVSa/9TRom/lcUHH/5l5QEtmR5ndPKFsURb8sLFjWS/Pvrvq/5Q5ornipjBR3cZJUDm7lfn+CCPH0GHVgUlsTWnWT7aVsw= Received: by 10.78.31.18 with SMTP id e18mr1410282hue; Tue, 23 May 2006 06:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.23.12 with HTTP; Tue, 23 May 2006 06:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560605230610r25b3f886tbaa964838a659d74@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:10:25 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all} In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560605160731j379ecfdbo42862a88433e112c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605221615gd0fcb7fj4c97cd7a9275a1b2@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605221708q3d88efe8teddf51b3f0e1103c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605221736p1d02db31sb154ed5cc4d0e793@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605221856w7c5703b4p9ec1d1b296e67093@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 11667 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 5/23/06, Maxim Katcharov wrote: > > du'emei = x1 is a set with too many members x2 I think that was the original place structure of {mei}, then it was changed to: mei [ mem mei ] cardinal selbri convert number to cardinality selbri; x1 is the mass formed from set x2 with member(s) x3 [x1 is a mass with N components x3 composing set x2; x2 is an n-tuple (x2 is completely specified) (= selmei for reordered places); x1 forms an n-some; x3 (not necessarily a complete enumeration) are [among the] members of x2]; (cf. cmima, gunma, cmavo list moi) In my opinion, the original was better, with "set" understood in a non-technical sense. > x1 being {lo ro mapku} > > Why is {lo ro mapku} being converted into a set, while {ro lo mapku} isn't? I don't ever use sets, so even when the gi'uste suggests/imposes that a place must be filled only with a set (it happens to not be the case this time, but even if was the case), I just ignore it. My reason for doing this is that sets don't add anything interesting, and they can quite complicate things. {lo ro mapku} refers to all hats, but it says nothing about distributivity of any predicate that applies to them. {loi ro mapku} indicates explicitly that all hats satisfy the place together/collectively. {ro lo ro mapku} says explicitly that each of all hats fits the place by itself. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.