From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon May 29 15:22:13 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 29 May 2006 15:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fkq7X-0004Ll-RJ for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 29 May 2006 15:21:55 -0700 Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com ([64.233.162.202]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fkq7U-0004Le-SJ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 29 May 2006 15:21:55 -0700 Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 4so551365nzn for ; Mon, 29 May 2006 15:21:51 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=n0RCZ3Ithl68Gzfxs9CLZFoo7MLOVp5kWVKQUd4D2Afo8rbxFWX+ronApC0e9uEIRaqhmiKF+1X2j3dUsfg+ijGyzjRY4IAS+B60gyFwQCYA98mz2H737GuiWsnp6LO63J8/PcEzdKJtGIpU3JjQ/vli3i/IgnAVnemgq/EI5zc= Received: by 10.65.189.3 with SMTP id r3mr1351103qbp; Mon, 29 May 2006 15:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.237.19 with HTTP; Mon, 29 May 2006 15:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560605291521s64cb0a2as821eea86d63839b8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 19:21:51 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all} In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560605160731j379ecfdbo42862a88433e112c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605271918x535ab3dre73d854264c1549d@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605280905u63d61d78k73da849a8d7856f1@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605290655h478dc1c5rbf85df7e0e7312cf@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605291351i15f1def0ocb0e163cb7a6143c@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11693 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 5/29/06, Maxim Katcharov wrote: > > My argument here was that the burden of proof is on you to show that > a) this pluralist view exists You can check that the pluralist view exists for example starting here: The "external links" at the bottom of the page are also interesting. > and is correct, Whether the singularist or the pluralist view is the "correct" one is perhaps an open question, there is debate about it among linguists, logicians and philosophers. For us mere Lojbanists all that matters is whether it can work, and so far it has proven itself quite well. > and b) that Lojban uses this pluralist view. Lojban belongs to its speakers. As long as some speakers use it, Lojban can in a sense be said to use it, and some speakers do use it, I can vouch for that. If most speakers decide they won't use it, it will perhaps be more correct to say that Lojban doesn't use it. It's too early to tell at this point, but if I had to bet, I'd vote on yes. > Until you do this, you should not attempt to use > this pluralist view in Lojban. Thanks for the advice. > What surrounds the building? > (The students.) > Does each student surround the building? > (No.) > Then what is it that surrounds the building? > (The students.) > So you mean the students together? > (No, the students.) > ... The last one should be: "Yes, the students do it together." > I'm not being dense when I ask you these: I understand your position > perfectly. You think that saying "the students" frees you from > implying that they're a group. I recognize this, and I assert that > it's incorrect. Avoiding the word "mass"/"crowd" when you say "the > students" does not mean that "the students" does not refer to a group > of students.. Because you assert it? mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.