From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu May 04 09:33:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44014 invoked from network); 4 May 2006 16:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2006 16:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2006 16:33:05 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fbgl8-00048U-6f for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 04 May 2006 09:32:58 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fbgja-00046w-NO; Thu, 04 May 2006 09:31:25 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 04 May 2006 09:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fbgiu-00046N-EV for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 04 May 2006 09:30:40 -0700 Received: from web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.126]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fbgis-00046F-MU for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 04 May 2006 09:30:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 35087 invoked by uid 60001); 4 May 2006 16:30:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20060504163036.35085.qmail@web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.152.10] by web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 May 2006 09:30:36 PDT Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 09:30:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <925d17560605040614k3bfb6ea3r4dcdfe7aa6533e4c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-archive-position: 11374 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: ralju bangu be le gligu'e X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=JglkV-11nayiia8w0uQVq1T4F4EXsB7RjJ2Z2vzMUVp7QUrjZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25790 One of the PR problems with saying that Lojban (and Loglan before it) are logical languages, with their grammars based on that of Formal Logic, is that it so often just ain't true. Here is a case: logically the expression asks for the English land one(s) among the principal languages of countries. Grammatically, however (in Lojban, that is -- in Logic the form matches the meaning), it asks for the principal one(s) among the languages of the English land. In this case, it is fair to assume that the referent is going to be the same, but obviously this will not always be the case. And much of the discussion in CLL seems (it is often hard to be sure) to say that it is the logical meaning that is intended when there is doubt -- to the dismay of anyone trying to write a semantics of the language. (Note that the definition of {bridi} is already at variance with the grammar here.) --- Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 5/4/06, Yanis Batura > wrote: > > In Wikipedian article > http://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/glico_bangu > > there is a phrase {ralju bangu be le > gligu'e}. > > My question is, is {ralju} a seltau for the > tertau {bangu be le > > gligu'e}, or {be le gligu'e} is an attached > sumti for the selbri > > {ralju bangu}? > > The former. For the latter, you can say {ke > ralju bangu ke'e > be le gligu'e}. {be} attaches a sumti to the > single tanru unit > to its left. > > {bangu be le gliselgu'e} would be more > appropriate, since it is the > people who use the language, not the country. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to > lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to > http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to > secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.