From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed May 17 17:39:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87213 invoked from network); 18 May 2006 00:39:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2006 00:39:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2006 00:39:09 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgWXj-0001Hi-I1 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 17 May 2006 17:39:07 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgWXA-0001GR-0g; Wed, 17 May 2006 17:38:32 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 17 May 2006 17:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgWV3-0001F4-EG for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 17 May 2006 17:36:21 -0700 Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com ([64.233.162.197]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgWV0-0001Ev-Bq for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 17 May 2006 17:36:21 -0700 Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id f1so378012nzc for ; Wed, 17 May 2006 17:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.20.12 with SMTP id 12mr1868355nzt; Wed, 17 May 2006 17:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.153.14 with HTTP; Wed, 17 May 2006 17:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 18:36:15 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20060517151821.39056.qmail@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060517151821.39056.qmail@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11591 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: maxim.katcharov@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Maxim Katcharov" From: "Maxim Katcharov" Reply-To: maxim.katcharov@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all} X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=IrCvkgdOozeUertCyoIC5fH0ahZVa9yV5BfzzK0aFs1I_Hi1Iw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 26009 On 5/17/06, John E Clifford wrote: > > The move from "the x that are p and the x that > are q" to "the x that are p and q" is a normal > error on the part of first month Logic students. > The correct distribution is to "the x that are > either p or q": not that everything in the > combined heap has both proerties but that each > has one or the other. ki'enai for comparing me to a first-month Logic student. I understand the concept very well, but I misused a word. When you made typos in previous posts, did I hasten to offer these sorts of comparisons? Keeping this sort of stuff out of an argument like this benefits everyone. On 5/17/06, John E Clifford wrote: > Contracts are, alas, rather cases of one of the > sort of thing I am pointing out, namely that you > cannot actually cover all the cases by a simple > description (or a complex one for that matter). > Consider a contract between a customer and a > dairy for the dairy to deliver two quarts of > milk to the customer's home every Thursday. One > Thursday a tiger escaped from a circus and was > roamin in the area of the customer's home and > attacking people. The dairy told its deliveryman > not to deliver the customer's milk that day. The > customer sued for breach of contract (Thursday > but no milk). The court ruled for the defendant, > saying that contract did not have to say "except > on tiger days" for this to be an exception; tiger > days just don't count as Thursdays for this > contract. The ruling was affirmed on appeal. > Here is as unambiguous a description as possible > and yet it too is relative to some interests, > which interests may not be dealt with beforehand. Despite the unrealistic use of "tiger days", I'll reply on your terms. The court is stating that the restriction given, "all tuesdays", was not the one intended. It's saying that both parties screwed up in writing the contract. This is a result of the ambiguity of "all". If the word "ool" was defined as "every single one. Yes, those too. NO EXCEPTIONS", and it was used in a contract, how do you think that this hypothetical court would have ruled? Speakers of a language with a word like "ool" would be well versed in the dangers of using it, and would indeed be better contract writers - I'm sure that you've heard of clauses like "...on all tuesdays from [...] to [...]. The milk company reserves the right to not serve milk on days that are unreasonable in the sole judgement of the milk company." in real contracts, yes? To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.