From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat May 06 09:36:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88658 invoked from network); 6 May 2006 16:36:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 May 2006 16:36:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 May 2006 16:36:28 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FcPlX-0006I2-V1 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 06 May 2006 09:36:24 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FcPk5-0006Gf-4M; Sat, 06 May 2006 09:34:53 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 06 May 2006 09:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FcPjc-0006GV-I9 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 06 May 2006 09:34:24 -0700 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.229]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FcPja-0006GN-CJ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 06 May 2006 09:34:24 -0700 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i13so797450wra for ; Sat, 06 May 2006 09:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.82.15 with SMTP id f15mr461045wrb; Sat, 06 May 2006 09:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.126.18 with HTTP; Sat, 6 May 2006 09:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560605060934q5a2b6172t6f3826feae787599@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 13:34:17 -0300 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060505125724.6757.qmail@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <925d17560605051356y14c8bc45xf602f0e8189b1d5e@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605051745m294b69c7m645ccc5cf61d037f@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605051949x4e9558c7oa69d3c999bc17680@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11408 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Usage of lo and le X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=lSjQwDWYZNMb1BxHHOJx6qec9XmlOkp_dwt3dfyRRJ0NmB7DxA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25824 On 5/6/06, Maxim Katcharov wrote: > > "it is THE neighborhood" probably has something to do with "it is the > ideal form" (though I don't think that Lojban has an ideal form in the > same way that it has a typical form.) Sounds right. Perhaps "this is the one and only neighborhood to live in" (all other neighborhoods fade from consideration once you've focused on this one). In that case one could say: ti me ba'e ro pa jarbu be te zu'e lo nu xabju "This is the ONE (neighborhood to live in)." > {lo ro cribe cu citka lo ro jbari} - "(all) bears eat berries" That would also say that all berries get eaten by bears. > {ro lo cribe cu citka lo ro jbari pe mi} - "(some specific) bears ate > (some unspecific of) my berries" That says that each bear eats all my berries, which can't really be the case unless there's only one bear. > {ro lo cribe cu citka ro lo ro jbari pe mi} - "(some specific) bears > ate (, specifically,) all my berries" "Each bear eats each of all my berries" > {ro lo ci cribe cu citka lo ro jbari pe mi} - "three bears ate my > berries" (all of some specific three) "Each of three bears eats all my berries." In all of the above cases, you don't want {ro} as the outer quantifier because you don't want it to be distributive. > {ci lo ro cribe cu citka lo ro jbari pe mi} - "three bears ate my > berries" (some unspecific of all) This says that of all bears, there are exactly three such that each of them eats all my berries. > Two questions before I can give a better explanation: > > What is the difference between {ro lo ro cribe} and {ro le ro cribe} > by your definition? ro lo ro cribe = each of all bears ro le ro cribe = each of all the bears (i.e. each of the bears I'm talking about) > How would you say "I mean every last bear in the universe", keeping in > mind that {le pa cribe} would not say anything about the amount of > bears in the universe? ro cribe poi zasti bu'u lo munje = each bear that exists in the universe There's no need for a special gadri to incorporate such a restriction, since it is not something needed very often. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.