From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu May 04 11:16:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29405 invoked from network); 4 May 2006 18:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 May 2006 18:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2006 18:16:43 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FbiNK-00060O-BE for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 04 May 2006 11:16:30 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FbiM2-0005yn-L6; Thu, 04 May 2006 11:15:12 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 04 May 2006 11:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FbiLb-0005yF-JM for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 04 May 2006 11:14:43 -0700 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.230]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FbiLZ-0005y7-Lr for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 04 May 2006 11:14:43 -0700 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i13so433728wra for ; Thu, 04 May 2006 11:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.106.10 with SMTP id e10mr352488wrc; Thu, 04 May 2006 11:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.126.18 with HTTP; Thu, 4 May 2006 11:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560605041114m56cf182dof36a68d6197c81e9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 15:14:40 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20060504163036.35085.qmail@web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560605040614k3bfb6ea3r4dcdfe7aa6533e4c@mail.gmail.com> <20060504163036.35085.qmail@web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11375 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: ralju bangu be le gligu'e X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=qNx4_VNgeF2UzU7aw1Se9E19t7wkNWtBvfZwwEE0csrSYfXAuQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25791 On 5/4/06, John E Clifford wrote: > Grammatically, however (in Lojban, > that is -- in Logic the form matches the > meaning), it asks for the principal one(s) among > the languages of the English land. In Lojban the form matches the meaning, at least in this case. The relevant part of the grammar is: selbri <- tanru-unit+ tanru-unit <- tanru-unit-2 linkargs? tanru-unit-2 <- BRIVLA / KE selbri KEhE / ... linkargs <- BE term (BEI term)* BEhO? i.e. the linked arguments are absorbed by a tanru unit before it can modify or be modified by another tanru unit. So I don't see any mismatches between form and meaning here. > In this > case, it is fair to assume that the referent is > going to be the same, but obviously this will not > always be the case. Both orders are expressable in Lojban: lo ralju (bangu be le gligu'e) lo (ke ralju bangu ke'e) be le gligu'e > And much of the discussion > in CLL seems (it is often hard to be sure) to say > that it is the logical meaning that is intended > when there is doubt -- to the dismay of anyone > trying to write a semantics of the language. There can be no doubt in this case though. > (Note that the definition of {bridi} is already > at variance with the grammar here.) How so? mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.