From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri May 05 14:16:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73162 invoked from network); 5 May 2006 21:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 May 2006 21:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 May 2006 21:09:57 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fc7Yh-0001Vb-58 for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 05 May 2006 14:09:55 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fc7Y9-0001V6-A5; Fri, 05 May 2006 14:09:23 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 05 May 2006 14:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fc7X9-0001U6-Gm for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 05 May 2006 14:08:19 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com ([66.249.82.197]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fc7X5-0001Tv-DW for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 05 May 2006 14:08:19 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id h26so570424wxd for ; Fri, 05 May 2006 14:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.109.11 with SMTP id h11mr1216276wxc; Fri, 05 May 2006 14:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.218.2 with HTTP; Fri, 5 May 2006 14:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 15:07:11 -0600 In-Reply-To: <925d17560605051356y14c8bc45xf602f0e8189b1d5e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060505125724.6757.qmail@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <925d17560605051356y14c8bc45xf602f0e8189b1d5e@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11399 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: maxim.katcharov@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Maxim Katcharov" From: "Maxim Katcharov" Reply-To: maxim.katcharov@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Usage of lo and le X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=fNlfhhOX2aj5rBrymWYJwJmQRFI2_JdVSbs5K_kHMKAAD_64iQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25815 My suggested definition does not assert that le and lo have /anything/ to do with "the" and "a", which you've clearly demonstrated are handled by {bi'u}, so I don't understand what you're illustrating. On 5/5/06, Jorge Llambías wrote: > Let's do an experiment. This is the definition of "the" from dictionary.com, > and my comments on where "the" corresponds to {le} and where it does not: > > > Used before singular or plural nouns and noun phrases that denote > > particular, specified persons or things: the baby; the dress I wore. > > Yes, that's what {le} is for. > > > Used before a noun, and generally stressed, to emphasize one of a group > > or type as the most outstanding or prominent: considered Lake Shore Drive > > to be the neighborhood to live in these days. > > No, {le} won't do for that. > > > Used to indicate uniqueness: the Prince of Wales; the moon. > > {le} can be used there, but it won't really indicate uniqueness. > {lo pa} is better to indicate that. > > > Used before nouns that designate natural phenomena or points of the > > compass: the weather; a wind from the south. > > No, plain {lo} will do. > > > Used as the equivalent of a possessive adjective before names of some > > parts of the body: grab him by the neck; an infection of the hand. > > Can be used there, but plain {lo} will do. > > > Used before a noun specifying a field of endeavor: the law; the film industry; > > the stage. > > No, plain {lo} is better. > > > Used before a proper name, as of a monument or ship: the Alamo; the Titanic. > > No, that's {la}. > > > Used before the plural form of a numeral denoting a specific decade of a > > century or of a life span: rural life in the Thirties. > > Doubtful. Plain {lo} would probably do. > > > Used before a singular noun indicating that the noun is generic: The wolf > > is an endangered species. > > No, that's {lo}. > > > Used before an adjective extending it to signify a class and giving it the > > function of a noun: the rich; the dead; the homeless. > > No, that's {lo}. > > > Used before an absolute adjective: the best we can offer. > > That's {lo}. > > > Used before a present participle, signifying the action in the abstract: > > the weaving of rugs. > > That's {lo nu}. > > > Used before a noun with the force of per: cherries at $1.50 the box. > > No, that needs some other construction. > > So {le} is "used before singular or plural (no difference in Lojban) nouns > and noun phrases that denote particular, specified persons or things: > the baby; the dress I wore." All the other functions that "the" has in English > are left to {lo} or to something else. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.