From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri May 12 17:09:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2540 invoked from network); 13 May 2006 00:07:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 May 2006 00:07:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2006 00:07:57 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FeheH-0007IS-PE for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 12 May 2006 17:06:21 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FehdE-0007Hm-I5; Fri, 12 May 2006 17:05:20 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 12 May 2006 17:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fehcn-0007HC-Ld for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 12 May 2006 17:04:49 -0700 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.232]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1Fehcl-0007H3-PM for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 12 May 2006 17:04:49 -0700 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 67so725455wri for ; Fri, 12 May 2006 17:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.82.7 with SMTP id f7mr2890383wrb; Fri, 12 May 2006 17:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.126.17 with HTTP; Fri, 12 May 2006 17:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560605121704y72a68ee6u9cd709c3cc8b1409@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 May 2006 21:04:46 -0300 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560605111709w1198a046n52838e84ee0fcc1c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605111827s5c1ee336u524d2a08555bd739@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605120641y12e1cfb7ydb80fad3d465bb1a@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560605121557l1341cd6dn57fab88b8c956e80@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11525 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Usage of lo and le X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=75nDA4Gr6OgeJhlYOcLm1w1XKBbvWw7rp35tlmsE-ftxMMaYQg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25942 On 5/12/06, Maxim Katcharov wrote: > > I never said that I want to refer to "all bears" unconstrained by > anything, in fact I've stated that this would usually be the wrong > thing to do - but that shouldn't mean that one can't do it. No, the > utility of my inner {ro} is much more obvious when taken in the > context of the "all bears in the cage" example (which is an "actual" > example, and which you seem to have ignored), where the referant is > constrained by something more than "that which is a bear" (e.g. "that > which is a bear, and that which is in /that/ cage"). That would be {lo ro cribe poi nenri le va selri'u}. It would probably not include bears that were before or will be later in the cage (although I can imagine contexts that would make those relevant, as in "all bears in that cage always end up getting sick, there must be something wrong with it"). Much less likely would it be that it includes imaginary bears that are in the cage, though again it would be possible to force it with some strong context: "Imagine that that cage is full of bears. Now imagine that all the bears in that cage suddenly turn into monkeys...." I don't think an expression that in every possible circumstance includes all those bears would be particularly useful. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.