From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue May 16 03:07:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57087 invoked from network); 16 May 2006 10:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2006 10:07:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2006 10:07:58 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FfwT5-0001oD-KF for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 16 May 2006 03:07:55 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FfwRc-0001mi-I8; Tue, 16 May 2006 03:06:25 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 16 May 2006 03:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FfwR9-0001lz-Su for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 03:05:55 -0700 Received: from phma.optus.nu ([166.82.175.165] helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FfwR9-0001ls-1i for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 03:05:55 -0700 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 102F52A85; Tue, 16 May 2006 10:06:05 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 06:06:00 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.3 References: <1147886402.24497.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20060515221217.40402.qmail@web32504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200605160606.02806.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-archive-position: 11556 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Pierre Abbat From: Pierre Abbat Reply-To: phma@phma.optus.nu Subject: [lojban] Re: "democracy" vs "representative republic" in lojban? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=n9LJi-ulPv63BLJOPGlz3Z-U6hybUEJuOuQMVVRW64gDt1lsgg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25974 On Monday 15 May 2006 23:30, Matt Arnold wrote: > The only way Lojban can help is if you go back to the list and declare > that from now on you will not use the word "democracy" since you do > not wish to be misunderstood. For pure democracy (that is to say, in > which every issue is voted on by everyone and majority rules), you > will henceforth say {roltrusi'o} and you ask that they understand it > as such. When you use the word {rolka'itrusi'o} you ask to be > understood to mean representative democracy. We also distinguish between a state and an idea of how a state should be governed. For the former we have {ka'irje'a} and various other words. AFAICT, it is not the method of electing representatives to the legislature that preserves individual rights, but the Bill of Rights and the ability to get a law overturned if it violates those rights. If a majority of states have a majority of cannibals, then the vegetarians could still get eaten. And if a majority of representatives are bought out by oil, drugs, and other special interests, then people's rights get trampled even if they elected them. phma To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.