From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue May 16 19:27:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74116 invoked from network); 17 May 2006 02:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2006 02:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2006 02:27:44 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgBlH-0000BL-7V for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:27:43 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgBkQ-0000A4-4y; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:51 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgBjz-00009s-J3 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:23 -0700 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.226]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.61) (envelope-from ) id 1FgBjx-00009e-4N for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:23 -0700 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i21so107114wra for ; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.108.6 with SMTP id g6mr1848713wrc; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.126.17 with HTTP; Tue, 16 May 2006 19:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560605161926idd869edob46420890931876e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 23:26:19 -0300 In-Reply-To: <446A7B47.9070002@v21.me.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <57995.192.94.94.105.1147732061.squirrel@www.thebranchhearth.net> <446A29E5.2020409@v21.me.uk> <925d17560605161255qed5f1aeu4918d7b322f35bd0@mail.gmail.com> <446A3F84.4000006@v21.me.uk> <925d17560605161604u234fe121u7a9338e8c4ed9e9e@mail.gmail.com> <446A7B47.9070002@v21.me.uk> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11579 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: X-bar, chomsky and lojban X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=mSTTh6Ib9Eh5ZlbIzsHu3d95LMgG2iiOcJDMI-ptsGwsJUvBHg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 25997 On 5/16/06, And Rosta wrote: > > For syntactic reasons. I.e. KU is head of KU-phrase. LE > is head of LE-phrase, which is complement of KU-phrase. > Selbri is head of Selbri-Phrase, which is complement of > LE-phrase. > > The rationale is that KU-phrase = the distributionally defined > class normally called 'sumti'. Then KU-phrase can have any > of a range of complements (LE, LA, KOhA, etc. etc.). KOhA and LA CMENE cannot take a {ku} though. Is the idea that in those cases the KU-phrase is always realized as null? > In the alternative analysis (in which KU is complement > of LE), you would not be able to dispense with the > class 'Sumti' and you'd have to define it disjunctively, > as "LE-phrase, or LA-phrase, or KohA-phrase, or ...". > Which is much more inelegant. Here's an argument for the alternative analysis in which Selbri-phrase is complement of KU-phrase and KU-phrase is complement of LE-phrase: Relative clauses can appear in three positions in a sumti, as marked by the stars: le * broda * ku * If we take the relative-clause as a complement of the KU-phrase then all three can be accounted for if the Selbri-phrase is also a complement of the KU-phrase. But if the Selbri-phrase is a comp[lement of the LE-phrase, then relative clauses have to be sometimes complement of the KU-phrase and sometimes a complement of something else (either of the LE-phrase or of the Selbri-phrase. > > I don't know if X-bar allows the head and the complement > > to be infixed/circumfixed to each other, but if it does then > > I think LE.../KU/ should be considered as one element and > > the inner selbri as the other element. > > No, this is not possible. I don't like X-bar for Lojban then. :) mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.