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Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:50:50 -0300
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From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" <lojban-out@lojban.org>
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Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all}
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On 6/11/06, Maxim Katcharov <maxim.katcharov@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/10/06, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> > An outermost quantifier is distributive,
> > an outermost mass-marker is non-distributive. It's that simple.
>
> No doubt it's a simple rule, but the question is if it's the proper
> way to describe how we communicate.

It's a proper way to describe how I understand Lojban works.
That's all I can offer you.

> > la .alis .e la betis = ro le re prenu
> > la .alis joi la betis = lei re prenu
> > la .alis jo'u la betis = le re prenu
>
> Are you offering these definitions as suggestions, or
> as explanations of how it really is?

As explanations of how I understand them to work in Lojban.

> So you would disagree that
>
>  loi tadni cu sruri lo dinju
>
> expands to
>
>  [da poi sruri lo dinju] cu gunma [lo tadni]
>
> which you had previously described as a legitimate interpretation,
> yes?

Using your place structure for {gunma} with distributive x2, I
would disagree, yes. I agreed when I thought we were using
{gunma} with the same meaning.

> {loi tadni cu sruri lo skori} and {ro lo tadni cu
> sruri lo skori} are different in some way, yes?

Yes.

> I'm asking you to explain the difference.

I've already already done that. (And besides you understand
the difference perfectly well.)

> Alice is part of X
> X surrounds the building
>
> Alice wears a hat
>
> Is the difference not apparent there?

Yes. In the pluralist view one would say instead:

Alice is one of X
X surround the building

In the singularist approach, X is a single thing, distinct from the
things that surround the building and consisting of them, while
in the plural approach X are many things, just those very things
that surround the building.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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