Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28609 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2006 15:19:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jun 2006 15:19:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2006 15:19:35 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FpRiY-0001Dn-On for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:19:10 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FpRgm-0001Cr-Jn; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:17:24 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FpRgL-00017W-Ua for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:16:54 -0700 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.177]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FpRgJ-00017P-9y for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:16:53 -0700 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id x31so1444918pye for ; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.46.6 with SMTP id y6mr479751pyj; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.14.7 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560606110816u3ee4a84cge837f004c771ac67@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 12:16:50 -0300 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560606090549k2275f466x7802ac6c9b6abfd3@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560606090813o32d608e3pa4fef3f3190c0c4c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560606100706j1b7f03bpb0a62b6ce99b613d@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560606110650o59bf82e9ye037061cea611f6a@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11786 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 X-eGroups-From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all} X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=PxH-5USMWddZuzWttxgJ3KyBO-LEBJ0AF3M5pxhhM2bWk0UWrA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 26207 Content-Length: 1854 Lines: 42 On 6/11/06, Maxim Katcharov wrote: > The surest way to show that I'm a fool for asking this 30th time > is to point me to an explanation that I haven't rightly shown to > be unexplanatory. I don't think you are a fool. Explanations are pointless at this point, because definitions cannot be right or wrong. We are now working with different definitions. At this point your {loi tadni cu sruri le dinju} and my {loi tadni cu sruri le dinju} are applicable in different situations. For example, in a situation where students are on one side of the building and professors are on the other side, in such a way that students and professors surround the building together, you can say that {loi tadni cu sruri le dinju} = "a group that includes students surrounds the building", and I can't say {loi tadni cu sruri le dinju} = "students surround the building". For me {loi tadni} means "students", just like {lo tadni}, and the mass gadri in addition indicates that whatever is predicated of the students is predicated non-distributively. For you it means "a group of things that includes students among its members", which is something quite different. At the beginning of the discussion, I thought we both understood what {loi tadni cu sruri le dinju} meant (more or less what it has always meant in Lojban) and we were comparing different ways of analyzing the sentence to get to that meaning. Now it appears that we don't even understand the sentence to mean the same thing. Comparing two ways of analyzing it as if we thought it meant the same thing for both is pointless. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.