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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:33:44 -0400
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From: Alex Martini <lojban-out@lojban.org>
Reply-To: alexjm@umich.edu
Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all}
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>> >
>> > I've read the first chapter of McKay's, and found that the author
>> > confused several issues. For example, he states that Alice is not a
>> > shipmate on her own, when she clearly is. She is shipmate of  
>> Bryce and
>> > Carol, etc. because she is in the same group as them, and not a
>> > shipmate of David and Erica, because they are of a different group.
>> >
>> > Two things regarding the suggestion. First, it seems that you think
>> > that I don't understand how it works. I think that I do  
>> understand how
>> > it works, it's just that I disagree with it. Second, I'm not  
>> arguing
>> > with Quine, or McKay, because sadly they don't subscribe to this  
>> list.
>> > I'm arguing with you and xorxes. I expect you to be able to argue
>> > against my position as well as Quine or McKay would, otherwise you
>> > really have no business arguing for or  believing in their  
>> position.
>> > If I show you to be wrong, you'll may just end up falling back  
>> on "oh,
>> > well, that doesn't mean that Quine was wrong".
>> >
>>
>> I beg to differ -- no person can ever be his own shipmate, any more
>> than he can be his own sibling or classmate or anything else of that
>> type.
>
> So? You can't be a kicker without a thing kicked, you can't be a
> toucher without something to touch. In the same way, you can't be a
> shipmate without another shipmate. However, Alice /has/ a shipmate.
> McKay states
>
> "
> "Arnie, Bob and Carlos are shipmates." This is something true of the
> three of them together. We cannot say "Arnie is a shipmate" except
> perhaps as elliptical for something that connects Arnie to others.
> (Arnie is a shipmate of someone.)
> "
>
> The problem with that is that we can say "Arnie is a shipmate".
> There's no perhaps here. What we mean when we say "Arnie is a
> shipmate" is that he's a shipmate of someone.
>
> [ li'o ]

Sorry --  this is my mistake. Rereading your original, you wrote  
"Alice cannot be a shipmate ON her own". I misread this as "Alice  
cannot be a shipmate OF her own".


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