From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Jun 22 05:31:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45752 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2006 12:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jun 2006 12:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jun 2006 12:31:47 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FtOL7-0003LC-Tn for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:31:18 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FtOIh-0003Ju-RV; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:28:50 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FtOI3-0003Ji-Hi for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:28:07 -0700 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FtOHu-0003JV-BM for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:28:03 -0700 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id j40so426378ugd for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.66.240.12 with SMTP id n12mr1035678ugh; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.25.13 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:28:00 +1000 In-Reply-To: <96B70796-7396-494B-B1F6-0ED1E22E3A09@umich.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <737b61f30606202030p74723a2dtbfbeb20fb5904002@mail.gmail.com> <737b61f30606202131m29311ab9md30f37ca320ae52c@mail.gmail.com> <737b61f30606211550i24387f0fv7dfca878dfd8e630@mail.gmail.com> <96B70796-7396-494B-B1F6-0ED1E22E3A09@umich.edu> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 11823 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: paulvigo@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: pavig From: pavig Reply-To: paulvigo@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: flashcards? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=Kwl5nTDdsnu1JiO6bgv1gJpPZw7LDMgViuG-7JvYrpKgCTfjBA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 26246 I agree with most of the the things that have been said about flash cards. This is why i suggested using a leitner system flashcard program. Flashcards are only useful up to a point in getting words into short and medium term memory. In that sense they are useful in giving you some vocabulary to use in your other drills, and it is actual use of the language that is the most efficient method for getting the language locked in. (This is why I'm doing some work on getting access to films for dubbing into lojban. Chatting to a trademark lawyer soon to work out the legal details etc, and will let you all know when I've got something solid) The way that a leitner flash program can assist in regular language learning. A leitner system will automatically ignore drilling you on words you are currently using, and focus you on new vocabulary. If you find a word keeps popping up every day and doesn't stick, just writing a sentence or two using the word on the back side of the card can give you something to lock onto. You have to own a flashcard program or system and integrate it into the rest of your learning to ensure you get the most out of it. Just having a program or some cards that have words on them (without any context) and leaving it at that is always going to be an inefficient method. Using it properly as a small component of a complete language learning system makes it worthwhile. Paul On 6/22/06, Alex Martini wrote: > > On Jun 21, 2006, at 6:50 PM, Chris Capel wrote: > > > On 6/21/06, Alex Martini wrote: > >> However, if you want to learn Lojban quickly, daily flash card > >> sessions are the way to go. > > > > See, I'm not sure this is true. If you practice daily by reading > > Lojban text, or doing other sorts of exercises, and make sure that > > you're exposed to a good round selection of vocabulary, it's my > > intuition that you will pick up vocabulary more quickly than if you do > > flashcards or logflash or Supermemo. And I actually used Supermemo > > with Lojban for about a month. My progress just felt slow, compared to > > what might be possible with other techniques. > > > > Now, maybe flashcards are fine once you already know all the basics, > > to help you finish out learning all of the cmavo and gismu. Or maybe > > flashcards really are pretty efficient, just really boring. But they > > didn't feel efficient. > > > > [ li'o ] > > I'm really not sure how efficient they are over the long term. I know > they are very efficient for 'cramming', however. On several > occasions, I have used a flash card program to learn a list of > vocabulary words for a class for school around 20 or thirty words in > an hour or so for a day or two. Most of what I memorized was quickly > lost though, without practice. I would expect that with practice I > would retain it better. > > I agree though, that reading Lojban text is better. And, yes flash > cards are about as boring as watching walls. Many of the words I know > have an original context from which I remember them. {ba} for > example, I learned from The Porous Prophet. When I confuse myself > between {pu} and {ba}, I recall the phrase {le ba panje xusra} to get > them straight again. Songs and stories are infinitely more interesting. > > If you feel so inclined, I would ask/invite you yourself to write > with the Lojban you know -- there is an unfortunate shortage of text > that is truly beginner's level. The challenge is to write with > vocabulary and grammar you actually know instead of looking it up in > the dictionary. Which is actually why I haven't written Lesson 5 on > the Reader for quite a while; I haven't been up for that kind of > mental challenge. > > mu'o mi'e .aleks To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.