From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Jul 03 20:23:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48499 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2006 03:23:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2006 03:23:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 2006 03:23:09 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FxbVB-0002xH-UG for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:23:06 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FxbTl-0002vu-Oe; Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:21:38 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FxbTK-0002vb-48 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:21:10 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FxbTJ-0002vT-6g for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:21:09 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l37so883677nfc for ; Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.151.3 with SMTP id y3mr1114562hud; Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.121.7 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Jul 2006 20:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:21:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <44A99334.2030200@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060630161352.GG11235@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20060630232721.15247.qmail@web56404.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <44A99334.2030200@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 11894 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Matt Arnold" From: "Matt Arnold" Reply-To: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: [hobyrne: Alphabet] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=U6JhSO3AsOgBTMbI4UahVFFla4lGRTCkwSIjX48B1bVGQTVmLg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 26320 On 7/3/06, Hugh O'Byrne wrote: > Thanks for your reply :) it is definitely one of the kindest ones I've > received. This is because enthusiastic people get me excited. > I have admitted to having little regard for social inertia. I could be wrong, but that's the most common trait of Lojbanists in my experience thus far. > Hmm. The only measure of success is reality itself. I'm not sure I can > wrap my head around this; the implied meaning is that the only measure > of success is *history*, and that, I disagree with. I get it. That's not what I meant. For another example, consider the distinction between hard science fiction and soft genres. With hard SF, people get in arguments about the actual laws of physics and what they do or don't allow. Whereas in fantasy and other softer genres, if you ask why a space alien in Star Wars looks so implausible, the answer is that George Lucas said so and it was true by executive fiat. The author cannot be wrong about an imagination he pulled out of his head, so there can be no argument. In the more stringent genres, if the author says you can exceed the speed of light, the author is wrong. Similarly, with Microsoft Windows you can't get at the source code so it's just going to be whatever Microsoft says it is. With Linux everybody can make it their own preference, so its splinters into an endless array of projects that are too often competing with each other for users. Similarly, a lot of thought went into making Lojban "right" or "improved" by some standards which were (presumably) kind of measurable. Now people constantly attempt to measure it, and can't leave it alone. In all of these areas, you just have to stop and say "good enough" or you'll never have any improvements that people will agree on and adopt. -epkat To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.