From lojban-out@lojban.org Sat Jul 08 13:39:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81568 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2006 20:39:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jul 2006 20:39:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jul 2006 20:39:23 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FzJaC-0000ND-Nk for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:39:20 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FzJYb-0000ME-HN; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:37:42 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FzJYA-0000M5-32 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:37:14 -0700 Received: from web81313.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.39]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FzJY7-0000Ly-WF for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:37:13 -0700 Received: (qmail 94333 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jul 2006 20:37:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20060708203710.94331.qmail@web81313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.237.228.212] by web81313.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 08 Jul 2006 13:37:10 PDT Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 13:37:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060708132924.01bc7b00@cox.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-archive-position: 12005 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: ZOI and culture neutrality X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=RTO0sV5Ao21PzsHtPKYQoucqQQTts7GJ8ERQdZf4mOPq2KbF5g X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 26431 Since I don't quite see how cultural neutrality (if possible) is involved in this question, I don't see why Lojban should be different from other languages in the way it treats foreign expressions. I used a lot of them in my work, from several languages that used the Latin alphabet, th9ough with different sounds than English, and several more that used different systems. In writing I just wrote them out as they were at home, if their alphabet was Latin, or in standard transceiption if not (Well, this was before Pinyin became a standard, so I used a dumbed down vwersion of Wade-Giles for Chinese - with the result that people kept saying "tey-o" for Dao). In speech I pronounced them as best I could(I flunked tones in African and Chinese Linguistics and in music class and I never got the vowels straightened out for languages with "pure" ones). I even occasionally deliberately exaggerated mispronunciation for effect. In short, I made it fairly clear that what I was saying or writing was foreign but I accomodated it to my English ("Goethe" is, depending on some intangible factors "Gerta" or "Gertha" or "Gayty," though I have a medal that says I can say it in Schuldeutsch.) I do the same in quoting English in Lojban -- when I am careful: what I quote is not quite what I ordinarily say in English, but it clearly isn't Lojban either. I suppose most others do similarly. In short, while I see the point of a phonetic auxiliary language for Lojban, I don't see the need for it. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.