From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Jul 12 13:08:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6581 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2006 19:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2006 19:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2006 19:52:39 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0kkM-0004FS-QZ for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:51:46 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0kjk-0004Ek-UI; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:51:11 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0kjJ-0004EU-A0 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:50:41 -0700 Received: from h-66-134-26-207.nycmny83.covad.net ([66.134.26.207] helo=pi.meson.org) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0kjG-0004EG-IY for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:50:41 -0700 Received: (qmail 25102 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2006 19:50:36 -0000 Received: from nagas.meson.org (HELO ?192.168.1.101?) (1000@192.168.1.101) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 12 Jul 2006 19:50:36 -0000 Message-ID: <44B5528B.30200@kli.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:50:35 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <37c.7b32157.31e6813f@wmconnect.com> In-Reply-To: <37c.7b32157.31e6813f@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-archive-position: 12158 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mark@kli.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Mark E. Shoulson" From: "Mark E. Shoulson" Reply-To: mark@kli.org Subject: [lojban] Re: singular vs. plural X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=Yzis65ayXPYoRRp6kafeuTVWxZorTAIqhZHZwO8K40CM8BoYNw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 26585 I've always thought that one-few-many was an eminently sensible and intuitive division, and I wonder why more languages don't use it. Looking at http://linguistlist.org/issues/8/8-239.html (archives of the linguist mailing list) I see someone noting that singular-paucal-plural "is found in the Cushitic language Bayso, where the paucal is used for reference to 'a small discrete number (from two to six) of individuals' (Hayward 1979:102). Bayso has this system in nouns, while Kayapó, a Jê language of Brazil, has it in its pronoun system (Wiesemann 1986:361, 368). It is also found in Avar, but relatively few nouns are involved (Sulejmanov 1985)" (and he's asking if anyone knows of other such languages) while quite a few languages have singular-dual-paucal-plural. Láadan has singular-paucal-plural division. Still doesn't answer your question about whether there is a language with paucal-plural but no singular. It would seem unlikely; the distinction between one and many is even more basic than between few and lots. ~mark MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/12/2006 4:22:34 AM Central Standard Time, > ecartis@digitalkingdom.org writes: > > >> Maxim Katcharov wrote: >> > I don't suggest that a language would not function without plurals, >> > but that it's odd that the line was drawn between 1 and 2. Without an >> > explanation for this, one would think that there are languages out >> > there that have a pervasive plural that makes itself known between 2 >> > and 3, for example. >> >> There are such languages. See: >> for some examples. >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > But are there any languages that distinguish between low-number, e.g., > perhaps 1 through 5, and high-number, greater than 5? IOW, where the > 'singular'/'low-number' category includes more than just 1? Many > languages have duals, but do any of them have no singular? > > stevo To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.