From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Jul 11 18:43:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29346 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2006 01:33:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jul 2006 01:33:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jul 2006 01:33:14 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0TbE-0007Cu-Hr for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:33:12 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0Tan-0007CR-89; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:32:45 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0TaL-0007CC-Or for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:32:17 -0700 Received: from web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.126]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0TaK-0007C4-RM for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:32:17 -0700 Received: (qmail 86833 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jul 2006 01:32:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20060712013207.86831.qmail@web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.237.228.212] by web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:32:07 PDT Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:32:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-archive-position: 12138 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: Cultural Neutrality X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=YKMNUVmp9_DG32N6P1qzmmXjXWTKBl-lZf6pOIDfuiYgMbjpNw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 26563 --- Maxim Katcharov wrote: > > Cultural neutrality in Lojban comes down to creating a language that > is easy for anyone of any culture or language to use. A large > component of this is not using a single language as the base, because > odds are, that language will be harder for one segment of the audience > to learn, and easy for another. > > Favoring Lojban over other languages is acceptable. Lojban's > phoneme-set is supposedly simple for one of any culture/language to > learn, and offers variant pronounciations. 90% (arbitrary figure) of > people should have no problems pronouncing Lojban. That all their > phonemes are not included is no big deal. > > Neutrality isn't about including every language, giving every language > a part to play (as if people will be sore that their language isn't > included), it's about making Lojban easy for everyone to speak. Still one would hope that cultural neutrality was more than having a phoneme set that was easy for everyone to pronounce -- it sounds like something important and exciting. And, of course, Lojban is not too good on even this: every base langauge has a problem with at least one phoneme and some with many more. And once you get off that top half dozen or so, the problems multiply. And then there are those consonant clusters, which are problems altogether for some languages and particular ones for most. To get a really "neutral" phonology you have to go to something like toki pona, with only the five vowels and just ptkslnmy (spelled j)w. No initial clusters, no double vowels, only syllable final is n (pronounced m before p and never occurring before m or n) To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.