From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Jul 11 13:42:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27736 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2006 20:26:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2006 20:26:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2006 20:26:43 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0OlU-0000dP-RR for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:23:29 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0Okx-0000cj-IN; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:22:56 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0OkU-0000ca-L1 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:22:26 -0700 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.183]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1G0OkT-0000cS-Rl for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:22:26 -0700 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id d42so3968988pyd for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.135.12 with SMTP id m12mr7123260pyn; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.14.17 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560607111322q7fc7df37y69b1278fd60f6c8e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:22:24 -0300 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060711154654.99785.qmail@web81315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <925d17560607111231k58afe993of960d8ce8e932b4b@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 12110 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: A (rather long) discussion of {all} X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=HexT4SHfgD5tm9afGTBArHCQIDrLNuUxMIBxW9sHaIMwGOIQJQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 26536 On 7/11/06, Maxim Katcharov wrote: > The issue I have still stands. We're claiming > something about something, yes? Not about some one thing, about many things, yes. > That something, to me, is the students > treated as a single entity. How are you claiming it about the multiple > things? That it's true of them when you're considering them as a mass, > but not when they're apart? I don't need to consider them as one thing to make a claim about them. You may, if you want to, consider them as one thing. It makes no difference for this particular case. It only makes a difference when we want to combine distributive and non-distributive claims in the same sentence. > Perhaps a ..."visual" explanation of the model of thought that I'm > using would help. Imagine that you have singular 'things' (identities) > floating around up there, and relationship-strand-things connect them > to each other/abstractions. So when you think of "humanity", a certain > singular thing is brought up, and you know by following some very > strong strands that it's composed of many humans, and so on. When > someone says "the students", a single thing is created, and then > perhaps they tell you that there were 100 of them, and a strand is > spun from that thing to that number. > > Now, when you tell me that something is predicated of 100 singular > things, and nothing else is involved, but that none of those 100 > things has a little strand (or a series of strands) connecting it > somehow to the building, I have to wonder what the heck's being > related. And really, speaking of these 100 singular things seems > aburd: unless you're a savant, I doubt that you're capable of keeping > that many things simultaneously in your mind in the first place. My > brain seems to go with two: the fact that they're students, and the > fact that there are 100 of them. How does your mind manage to process: ro le panono tadni cu dasni lo mapku then? I don't think the kind of pictures we can raise in our minds are relevant. mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.