From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Aug 20 17:08:06 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GExKF-0004kq-CU for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:07:31 -0700 Received: from mx.211.ru ([193.238.131.194]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GExK9-0004kh-Nr for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:07:31 -0700 Received: from localhost (mx.211.ru [193.238.131.194]) by mx.211.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA70AEBC33 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:43:32 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from mx.211.ru ([193.238.131.194]) by localhost (mx.211.ru [193.238.131.194]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 34831-08 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:43:31 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from mail.211.ru (mail [10.5.1.2]) by mx.211.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32CBEBC2E for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:43:30 +0700 (NOVST) Received: from localhost (host-102-2-129.211.ru [10.102.2.129]) by mail.211.ru (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753755C15 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:07:18 +0700 (NOVST) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:07:18 +0700 From: Yanis Batura X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.30) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <936884054.20060821070718@mail.ru> To: Matt Arnold Subject: [lojban] Re: mabla In-Reply-To: References: <47859832.20060820235613@mail.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------CB72B8E393B8B" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-archive-position: 12523 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ybatura@mail.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------------CB72B8E393B8B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 21.08.2006, 0:16, Matt Arnold wrote: > On 8/20/06, Yanis Batura wrote: >> Why are there so many anatomical references for the gismu {mabla}? All those >> body parts may be/seem obscene or derogatory in Western/European culture, >> but not in every culture in the world. >> zo vlagi cu srana lo se smuni be zo mabla mu'i ma .i mi na tugni >> I think that is not culturally neutral! >> mi'e .ianis. > Every person has their own culture. Lojban is a culturally neutral > *language*, but that does not mean a Lojban-speaker is a culturally > neutral *person*. There is nothing in Lojban that makes {vlagi} > automatically {mabla}. If someone says {mabla vlagi}, Lojban cannot > prohibit them from having that opinion or that culture. They are > speaking for their own opinions. > In fact, the great thing about Lojban is that if you speak to a person > from a culture that does not think {vlagi} is {mabla}, you are much > more clear by making it specific with {mabla}. You are then > communicating about yourself and your own culture so they can > understand where you're coming from. In a natural language you would > only use the word for {vlagi}. You would need them to already know > that it is obscene or derogatory for you, and they wouldn't > understand. Hmm, my question was why {vlagi} was in the reference list of {mabla}, and not, say, {besna} or {since}. mi'e .ianis. --------------------- Lojban: A Language With *Intelligent* Design ------------CB72B8E393B8B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 21.08.2006, 0:16, Matt Arnold wrote:

> On 8/20/06, Yanis Batura <ybatura@mail.ru> wrote:

>> Why are there so many anatomical references for the gismu {mabla}? All those

>> body parts may be/seem obscene or derogatory in Western/European culture,

>> but not in every culture in the world.

>> zo vlagi cu srana lo se smuni be zo mabla mu'i ma .i mi na tugni

>> I think that is not culturally neutral!

>> mi'e .ianis.

> Every person has their own culture. Lojban is a culturally neutral

> *language*, but that does not mean a Lojban-speaker is a culturally

> neutral *person*. There is nothing in Lojban that makes {vlagi}

> automatically {mabla}. If someone says {mabla vlagi}, Lojban cannot

> prohibit them from having that opinion or that culture. They are

> speaking for their own opinions.

> In fact, the great thing about Lojban is that if you speak to a person

> from a culture that does not think {vlagi} is {mabla}, you are much

> more clear by making it specific with {mabla}. You are then

> communicating about yourself and your own culture so they can

> understand where you're coming from. In a natural language you would

> only use the word for {vlagi}. You would need them to already know

> that it is obscene or derogatory for you, and they wouldn't

> understand.

Hmm, my question was why {vlagi} was in the reference list of {mabla}, and not, say, {besna} or {since}.

mi'e .ianis.

---------------------

Lojban: A Language With *Intelligent* Design

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