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Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:27:38 -0400
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From: Alex Martini <lojban-out@lojban.org>
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Subject: [lojban] Re: No Italy
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Actually, neither is a dialect of the other. Italian, French,  
Portugese, Spanish, and the other Romance languages are more like  
siblings than dialects of eachother. In the beginning, there was  
Classical Latin -- the 'proper' or 'formal' Latin of the Roman  
conquerors, from which came Vernacular Latin (also called Vulgar  
Latin) -- the Latin of the common people. As it mixed with the local  
dying languages, it formed dialects which became less and less like  
eachother over time. Spanish got a heavy dallop of Arabic mixed in,  
which the others missed, from being occupied by the Moors.

So, calling either a dialect of the other is incorrect. Honestly,  
most languages are more of a spectrum -- a fact which was much more  
obvious in centuries past before formalization of language was so  
strong.

I think the point being made was that Spanish is the representative  
of the Latin decended languages (Romance), so we *could* refer to  
Italian in terms of Spanish. Not that anybody reccommends this  
though. I prefer the lujvo or fu'ivla myself.

mu'omi'e.aleks.

On Aug 19, 2006, at 11:32 AM, Timothy Hobbs wrote:

> that seems a bit rude.  I am preity sure it is the other way  
> around.  (spanish
> is a dialect of italian.).  It is also quite incorrect.  You could  
> have new
> latin and western new latin,  BUT NOT EASTERN SPANISH!  It is just  
> plain
> wrong.  and also eastern spanish would not properly represent the  
> cultures
> involved.  and seems quite offensive.  (ie,  genericide of celibrated
> diferences).
>
> I don't accualy know anything.  that responce was wholy from the  
> emotional
> side of my brain.
>
> On Saturday 19 August 2006 06:22, Bob LeChevalier wrote:
>> Yanis Batura wrote:
>>> I wonder why there is no gismu for Italy/Italian while there are
>>> {jordo}, {filso}, {libjo}, {lubno}. I think Italians can provide  
>>> 1000
>>> times more Lojbanists than the countries pertaining to the latter  
>>> four
>>> gismu.
>>
>> Arguably you could make a lujvo from latmo (and indeed that was  
>> our idea
>> at the time).
>>
>> The answer to your question is that Italy does not speak one of the 6
>> source languages, whereas the four you mentioned do.  Based solely on
>> cultural neutrality, it was difficult to find a reason NOT to make a
>> gismu for any country with a substantial number of Arabic speakers,
>> especially since Arabic qualified as one of our 6 languages only by
>> counting the speakers in the many different countries that spoke the
>> language.
>>
>> If you want to be really culturally obtuse, you could call Italian
>> "eastern-Spanish", since we almost counted Italian as a dialect of
>> Spanish for weighting purposes in the language populations %^)
>>
>> Or you can make a fu'ivla, which has been the idea ever since we  
>> worked
>> out a system for fu'ivla lujvo.
>>
>> lojbab
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list- 
>> request@lojban.org
>> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/ 
>> lsg2/, or if
>> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
> -- 
> --
> Timothy Hobbs
> tim.thelion@gmail.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list- 
> request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/,  
> or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>
>
>


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