From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Oct 31 23:00:44 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GfA5D-0006a1-JO for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:00:19 -0800 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.170]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GfA55-0006Zg-IG for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:00:19 -0800 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so1632338ugr for ; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:00:08 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=rRBgvKghSmQC5NyUCDaoQelIZi6d9Ntk8zsULNqRKguZkDvy+fXtYLcSMWSFPHtLlVnxD4VdanbK19hNfCk77l2ZMYKQZdm39lTUyDtLZhykiRef00nAD/bdrP8zi4aU1MIxd0c2LE3UlCl4JzfXEY+43eS2/C4jGel9vloZdv8= Received: by 10.78.139.1 with SMTP id m1mr8328467hud; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:00:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.124.16 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Oct 2006 23:00:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 02:00:08 -0500 From: "Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: reform In-Reply-To: <20061031211204.69932.qmail@web30405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_15182_9676218.1162364408049" References: <20061031211204.69932.qmail@web30405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-archive-position: 12880 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: andrii.z@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------=_Part_15182_9676218.1162364408049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In English we don't stress vowels based on the syllable in the words: Wikipedia article Stress (Linguistics): Timing and placement *Further information: Timing (linguistics) * English is a *stress-timed language*; that is, stressed syllables appear at a roughly constant rate, and non-stressed syllables are shortened to accommodate this. Other languages have *syllable timing* ( e.g. Spanish ) or *moratiming * (e.g. Japanese ), where syllables or morae are spoken at a roughly constant rate regardless of stress. Some languages have fixed stress. That is, stress is placed always on a given syllable, as in Finnishand Hungarian (stress always on the first syllable) or Quechuaand Polish (stress always on the penult : one syllable before the last) or on third syllable counting backwards, as in Macedonian(see: *Stress in Macedonian language *). Other languages have stress placed on different syllables but in a predictable way, as in Latin (where stress is conditioned by the structure of the penultimate syllable). They are said to have a regular stress rule. as you can see from the above, English is a stress-timed language. so we don't emphasize the penultImate syllabEles. so there would be no point in capitalizing them as you wouldn't pronounce them that way anyways. The reason I stress the pen-ultimate syllable in lOjban, is because it needs to be stressed, unlike in english where you stress whatever you want, (shows emphasis and such). to show Emphasis in lOjban we use zo ba'e, and the rythym of the language is defined bY the penultimate syllable. ThAt is why I emphasize the penultimate syllable. nOw that i think about it, perhaps i'll start strEssing english words. That could make them EAsier to read -- mAybe even showing more Emphasis. On 10/31/06, Jon MacLeod wrote: > > I have a contention to the practice of capitalizing the stressed syllable > in > regular text- one, I fInd It mUch hArder tO rEad wIth thE letter > capitalized, > and secondly, in certain fonts, the capital I and lowercase l look > /exactly/ > the same. cIlno clIno try it out. > > -Jon Jones > > "I have a brain, I've just lost my mind." -Ian McLeod > > "As a percentage of total universal knowledge, what I know is > statistically insignificant." - me > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 > GCS>$ d+(++) s++:-- a- C++ UL P L++>+++++ !E W+(++) N+ o? K- !w---- O- > M-(+)@ V? PS+++ PE- Y+ PGP- t+ !5-- X(+) R+ !tv-- b+++ DI+ D+ G e* h+* > r+(++) y+(++) > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the New > Yahoo.com > (http://www.yahoo.com/preview) > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > -- ta'o(by the way) We With You Network at: http://lokiworld.org .i(and) more on Lojban: http://lojban.org mu'oimi'e lOkadin (Over, my name is lOkadin) ------=_Part_15182_9676218.1162364408049 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In English we don't stress vowels based on the syllable in the words:

Wikipedia article Stress (Linguistics):

Timing and placement

Further information: Timing (linguistics)

English is a stress-timed language; that is, stressed syllables appear at a roughly constant rate, and non-stressed syllables are shortened to accommodate this. Other languages have syllable timing (e.g. Spanish) or mora timing (e.g. Japanese), where syllables or morae are spoken at a roughly constant rate regardless of stress.

Some languages have fixed stress. That is, stress is placed always on a given syllable, as in Finnish and Hungarian (stress always on the first syllable) or Quechua and Polish (stress always on the penult: one syllable before the last) or on third syllable counting backwards, as in Macedonian (see: Stress in Macedonian language). Other languages have stress placed on different syllables but in a predictable way, as in Latin (where stress is conditioned by the structure of the penultimate syllable). They are said to have a regular stress rule.


as you can see from the above, English is a stress-timed language. so we don't emphasize the penultImate syllabEles. so there would be no point in capitalizing them as you wouldn't pronounce them that way anyways.

The reason I stress the pen-ultimate syllable in lOjban, is because it needs to be stressed, unlike in english where you stress whatever you want, (shows emphasis and such).

to show Emphasis in lOjban we use zo ba'e, and the rythym of the language is defined bY the penultimate syllable. ThAt is why I emphasize the penultimate syllable.

nOw that i think about it, perhaps i'll start strEssing english words. That could make them EAsier to read -- mAybe even showing more Emphasis.
On 10/31/06, Jon MacLeod <eye_onus@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have a contention to the practice of capitalizing the stressed syllable in
regular text- one, I fInd It mUch hArder tO rEad wIth thE letter capitalized,
and secondly, in certain fonts, the capital I and lowercase l look /exactly/
the same. cIlno clIno try it out.

-Jon Jones

"I have a brain, I've just lost my mind." -Ian McLeod

"As a percentage of total universal knowledge, what I know is statistically insignificant." - me

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.12
GCS>$ d+(++) s++:-- a- C++ UL P L++>+++++ !E W+(++) N+ o? K- !w---- O- M-(+)@ V? PS+++ PE- Y+ PGP- t+ !5-- X(+) R+ !tv-- b+++ DI+ D+ G e* h+* r+(++) y+(++)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------



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--
ta'o(by the way)  We With You Network at: http://lokiworld.org .i(and)
more on Lojban: http://lojban.org
mu'oimi'e lOkadin (Over, my name is lOkadin) ------=_Part_15182_9676218.1162364408049-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.