From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Oct 22 18:37:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49851 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2006 01:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Oct 2006 01:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2006 01:34:10 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GboeD-00059Q-Ou for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:30:37 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gbodf-00057z-NF; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:30:08 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GbodD-00057Z-Ph for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:29:35 -0700 Received: from regin.oit.pdx.edu ([131.252.120.56]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GbodB-00057M-D3 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:29:35 -0700 Received: from grerr.oit.pdx.edu (grerr.oit.pdx.edu [131.252.120.19]) by regin.oit.pdx.edu (8.13.3+/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9N1TQ4o002480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:29:27 -0700 Received: from grerr.oit.pdx.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by grerr.oit.pdx.edu (8.13.3+/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k9N1TQNe011786; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:29:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: grerr.oit.pdx.edu: Host localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] claimed to be grerr.oit.pdx.edu Received: (from sec@localhost) by grerr.oit.pdx.edu (8.13.3+/8.13.1) id k9N1TQQe011785; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:29:26 -0700 Received: from c-24-22-28-147.hsd1.mn.comcast.net (c-24-22-28-147.hsd1.mn.comcast.net [24.22.28.147]) by webmail.pdx.edu (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:29:26 -0700 Message-ID: <1161566966.453c1af68e2c0@webmail.pdx.edu> Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 18:29:26 -0700 Cc: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <1161531142.453b8f06acbcf@webmail.pdx.edu> <453BA904.3010909@kli.org> <1161550551.453bdad70d6f2@webmail.pdx.edu> <453C05CF.1060100@kli.org> In-Reply-To: <453C05CF.1060100@kli.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.6 X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 12775 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: keppel@pdx.edu X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0 X-eGroups-From: Ryan Keppel From: Ryan Keppel Reply-To: keppel@pdx.edu Subject: [lojban] Re: binary Lojban X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=hQaTHcMgWnxfALw-o95NltD0dhUxATzcJ1DTSkL7uu2QfSi2pA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27213 I sincerely apologize for my personal note as well as my public note. In any case, let's get down to the technical! I have rustled up my personal language, with the intent on making it much like Ruby (think Perl). I'm going to put in some explicit references to lojban into the grammar. Something beyond the internationalization concepts in Java--the better to uniquely present Lojban. Even some of the details of the grammar will be heavily influenced by Lojban. The Java virtual machine or others are not really appropriate for Lojban. Technically, you could have some subset of Lojban that could be compiled to the JVM. However, that's really not in any way useful. Ultimately, this will have to be done in concert with an AI as you say. I would be interested in common machine translation data structures in looking for a way to do this. Much of that is closed source, however. Quoting "Mark E. Shoulson" : Ryan Keppel wrote: > How about you match what I have given to Lojban? Huh? I am thinking that you > will have no reply to this. Huh? Eh? > Er, how do you know I haven't? I've been involved in Lojban longer than you, since even before your first association with it. Robin says I am "not far behind you," so I guess I'll have to take that as confirmation that I have not yet met your goal. Although in the years I've been here, for all my distractions and everything, I think I have contributed a whole lot of intellectual energy and resources to The Cause, maybe even more than you have. At any rate, all that is neither here nor there; it doesn't matter the tiniest bit even if I had contributed nothing up till now. It doesn't speak to what you were talking about. To the topic at hand, though: you were asking about a "binary" version of Lojban, in the same sense that Python bytecode is a binary version of Python. It doesn't even really matter what the bytecode is, though, since I suppose one could write any number of languages not at all like Python that still compile to Python bytecode, or to Java bytecode, and so on. I suppose we could use one of those for Lojban's bytecode as well, though it would be a very restricted form of the language (since most of the gismu of Lojban don't have much meaning in terms of computer operations). A higher-level Lojbanic bytecode for interpretation by and as an AI would be nice, but I think we can't do anything meaningful in that direction until first we have some decent AI working with and from Lojban as it is. We could try to write a Lojban-to-JVM compiler, I suppose, essentially making Lojban a programming language. Or write a Lojban-oriented VM, though I don't really see what such a thing would be. I think someone once wrote a Lojban-to-Prolog compiler or interpreter, which is sort of along those lines. I still somehow doubt any of these solutions are what you are looking for, which makes me think I'm not understanding what you want very well. ~mark To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.