From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Nov 13 17:57:54 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:57:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GjnYN-0006Iq-7d for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:57:35 -0800 Received: from centrmmtao06.cox.net ([70.168.83.78]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GjnYH-0006Ij-RP for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:57:35 -0800 Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by centrmmtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id <20061114015724.WMRL14538.centrmmtao06.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:57:24 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id mRwe1V0093y5FKc0000000; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:56:40 -0500 Message-ID: <4559227D.1030202@lojban.org> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:57:17 -0500 From: Bob LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule References: <20061113204805.48815.qmail@web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4558E466.80006@lojban.org> <525A773F-A307-43AF-9603-3E18C02C42FA@mac.com> <4558F37D.9070003@kli.org> <1C22C212-76D1-47C4-A7B1-F374D9F4637A@mac.com> <20061114004934.GT24729@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <41F8D659-DB94-42DE-9AFD-866F37BE283A@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <41F8D659-DB94-42DE-9AFD-866F37BE283A@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 13140 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Robert McIvor wrote: > On 13 Nov, 2006, at 19:49, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 07:45:21PM -0500, Robert McIvor wrote: >> >>> >>> On 13 Nov, 2006, at 17:36, Mark E. Shoulson wrote: >>> >>>> Robert McIvor wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> And the rule was altered to cover the LaPlace situation. I >>>>> believe the current solution allows unambiguous parsing of >>>>> names (in Loglan), and has only the restriction that names end >>>>> with a consonant and a pause. >>>> >>>> I'm still not fully understanding how the new Loglan rule covers >>>> all cases. What about someone named, say {parmalagan}? Is {la >>>> parmalagan} a single person, or is it {la parma la gan}, two >>>> sumti, the first being LA on a hypothetical predicate {parma}? >>> >>> >>> la parmalagan would be la Parmalagan, because la parma would need >>> to be followed by a pause to be la parma la gan >> >> >> Why is that, exactly? That wasn't mentioned in your full >> description. > > > There has to be a pause after a name, whether a predicate used as a > name or a proper name. This signals the end of the name. The pause is > before the second la. I presume when a predicate is used with la, it > is intended to specify a particular instance of that predicate. I believe that this is an example of what JCB called a "lexemic pause", where the pause has grammatical import as well as lexical import (in this case telling you that la parma la gan is two names. But of course "parma" would be detected by a lexer as a brivla and the pause is thus not part of "parma" but a separate lexeme. In Lojban names, the pause at the end IS part of the cmene. This then causes a different sort of ambiguity, between a lexemic pause, and a hesitation or breath-pause that is otherwise legal between words. lojbab To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.