From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Nov 14 10:30:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14707 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2006 18:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2006 18:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2006 18:25:12 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gk2DD-00064h-Qg for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:36:44 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gk2BP-000639-SZ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:34:59 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:34:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gk2Aw-00062x-OF for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:34:22 -0800 Received: from web81314.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.40]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gk2Ap-00062o-Ha for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:34:22 -0800 Received: (qmail 83992 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 17:34:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20061114173413.83990.qmail@web81314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.237.213.146] by web81314.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:34:13 PST Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:34:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <45592DC2.4040606@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-archive-position: 13163 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=psU8xEO1ZnvMAcEAeisOo8hZJvu9MYo8A42qpgG00IM2lvW7Sg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27597 --- Bob LeChevalier wrote: > John E Clifford wrote: > > I thought {lai} could take stress only if explicitly marked by {ba'e}. That there would also > be > > stress on {tl} I pass over as obvious. > > ba'e is totally independent of any sort of vocal stress. > > Why would there be stress on "tl"? It is a monosyllable. Lojban's > default is penultimate stress, with no stress defined for monosyllabic > words. Because it is a name and thus receives sentential stress and probably inherent one as well, rule or no rule. The examplre also has {lAI}, which, since Lojban supposedly does not have contrastive stress (sure, sure!), must be (a part of) either a name or a brivla, with what follows (assuming the speaker remembers the pause) setting it as a name. Of course, the stress trick will not vork generally, since the /la/ or /doi/ or whatever need not be the stressed syllable in the name. It seems to me that no trick so far discussed will work in practice: we will not remember to exempt certain syllables from names, we will forget pauses (though making {la} and the like to be learned as {la.} where the period is a genuine glottal stop might improve things). Again, using something that occurs nowhere else (the glottal stop is a difficult-to-use-or-remember-or-hear example) seems the safest route (and can be used, as was pointed out some time ago, to deal with borrowings as well). To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.