From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Nov 13 17:34:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31042 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2006 01:31:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2006 01:31:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2006 01:31:08 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjn8O-0005ZU-Eh for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:30:44 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjn7s-0005YI-Vi; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:30:19 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjn7R-0005Xf-Vz for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:29:46 -0800 Received: from centrmmtao02.cox.net ([70.168.83.82]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjn7I-0005XG-7Z for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:29:45 -0800 Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by centrmmtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id <20061114012939.SXGQ19547.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:29:39 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id mRUs1V00o3y5FKc0000000; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:28:54 -0500 Message-ID: <45591BFC.7080808@lojban.org> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:29:32 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <325816428.20061113190842@mail.ru> <20061113171203.GD24729@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <4558B5C3.9020006@kli.org> <87d57rxf3v.fsf@gmail.com> <4558E2A1.9010907@lojban.org> <4558F43D.4070601@kli.org> In-Reply-To: <4558F43D.4070601@kli.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 13134 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: Bob LeChevalier From: Bob LeChevalier Reply-To: lojbab@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=0VWvrwpQGB1uzgnvFSzRzNPCg1OI1LskUmDC_BIhWcurqW7-rA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27565 Mark E. Shoulson wrote: > Bob LeChevalier wrote: > >> >> For all that Mark thinks that the problem will be lasting, it should >> be trivial for the tools - lexer/parser/glosser etc, to include such >> things as a check for "la" and related strings in what otherwise >> parses as a cmene token, and flag it with a clear error message. In >> the absence of skilled editors, the classic standard of evaluating >> Lojban text for publication has been to run it through the parser. > > "You must have faith in the future, young one. Soon, everyone will > always have computers to check their grammar." No. Many will have computers to help them LEARN their grammar, for those features of grammar which are necessary for computer understanding, but which don't seem to be a problem for humans. And this one is a very trivial check for a computer, if not for humans (who aren't so hot even at proofreading for spelling errors in their native language, or we wouldn't have spell-checkers). > I should put "won't this be solved by better technology?" as one of the > responses on the wiki page. The la rule isn't required with standard (spaces included) orthography, and without a speaking community. When we have a skilled speaking community, we can find out whether la in names in the spoken language causes problems for humans - after all, humans can parse English and other human languages successfully, and they aren't audiovisually isomorphic. We know that la in names would cause problems for a computer with no AI capability at all. So it may take a computer to be stupid enough while rule-bound to recognize that it is misunderstanding something that humans have no trouble understanding. lojbab To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.