From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Nov 09 06:20:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46647 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2006 14:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Nov 2006 14:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2006 14:13:40 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GiAej-0001pP-MC for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:13:25 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GiAde-0001oX-Rc; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:12:25 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:12:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GiAdB-0001o2-0E for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:11:49 -0800 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.168]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GiAcw-0001nn-C4 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:11:48 -0800 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id c2so214678ugf for ; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:11:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.146.11 with SMTP id t11mr1117220hud.1163081491852; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.124.16 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 06:11:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:11:31 -0500 In-Reply-To: <200611081049.40483.colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_33291_30845195.1163081491532" References: <2d3df92a0611061040o5b0781c0o3df414476a3e0b68@mail.gmail.com> <200611081049.40483.colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-archive-position: 12984 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: andrii.z@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin" From: "Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin" Reply-To: andrii.z@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: livejournal discrimination X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=hdsIroUosXBVipv5en_30YOFAfJiI30y0ZnRHR23PgxD8XwdEw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27425 ------=_Part_33291_30845195.1163081491532 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 11/8/06, Colin Wright wrote: > > Just a few brief comments about the capitalisation discussion. > > I'm not a fluent lojban reader, writer, speaker or listener. I am and > have > been for many years a strong lojban advocate, quietly telling people about > > it, getting the sporadic individual interested, occasionally even > enthused. > Not many, I admit, but I've tried. I've even used it as a basis for some > of > the mathematics masterclasses I run. I'm trying to plant the seed, even > though I'm not good enough to give lessons and get things really rolling. .ikoPACnalipa .idoKAKnelenuCTUcafola.LOJban. On that score, I'd appreciate contructive comments on this page: > > http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/LojbanLanguage.html?LojbanList > > Anyway, back to the capitalisation ... > > I personally find lOkadin's text impossible to read. I'm sure he's right, > and > that if only I were a better lojbanist then I'd have no problem. Sadly I'm > not, and knowing my limitations, I probably never will be. In short, > lOkadin's choice means I have great difficulty reading his text. .idoJIMpemi However, that's his choice. If he wants to use a new style, the fact that I > can't read it is probably irrelevant. I'm not proficient, so perhaps I > don't > matter. He's obviously more capable than I. > .inago'i .ilemiKAKnenaZMAduledoKAKne .i la'it.TE,Odor.ce.DJANcak.goiko'a cuDJUnola'ede'u .imu'a ko'aCUSkule'isedu'u luzoi.gy. Actually, for those of us who can read it, we tend to find numerous errors, both grammatical and spelling. Even if you could parse the words out, it would likely still be unintelligible for you. .gy. .uinai go'i li'u A similar comment applies to what Hugh wrote: > > > cIlre is quite easy to read in many fonts. If you've > > chosen one for your web browser in which it's not easy, > > well, it's hardly lOkadin's fault. > > Absolutely. I've chosen a font in my web browser, and my email package, > that > makes the vast majority of my emails easy to read. It's not lOkadin's > fault > that it makes his text hard to read, potentially ambiguous. I merely > state > that such is the case. It's his choice to use a new style that I, and > apparently others, find difficult. .i.a'ozoCILrecuMLEcaNANdu Finally: > > On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 05:48:29PM -0500, Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin wrote: > > .ixudapema'acujIkcalamIkal.wAlas.poifIntila'o.py. > > http://coirodo.com.py.ipe'ima'anItcucUskulesedu > ' > > u.i'o.io.itrOcijmInalamIkal.ma'a.imikAkneku > > 'iminadjUnolovecUskufilamIkal. > > Here lOkadin's style makes it impossible for my email package to locate > the > URL and turn it into a link for me. I mention this for the sake of > completeness. > > > So there's nothing to stop lOkadin from using "his" style, and I applaud > his > attempts to be fully lojbanic, and artistic at the same time. I'd just > like > to make sure he knows he is excluding some people who might otherwise like > to > remain involved. .ia'osai lenudoSARjila.LOJban.keicuRANji ni'okoGLEkiko .ikoBANlifiko .i.ui > mi'e kolin. > -- > Dr C.D.Wright, Director of Innovation and Engineering > Denbridge Marine Limited, Cammell Lairds Waterfront Park, > Campbeltown Road, Birkenhead, Wirral, Merseyside, CH41 9HP. > > Tel: +44 (0)151 649 4080 > Fax: +44 (0)870 051 8953 > Mob: +44 (0)7980 57 22 96 > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > -- ta'o(by the way) We With You Network at: http://lokiworld.org .i(and) more on Lojban: http://lojban.org mu'oimi'e lOkadin (Over, my name is lOkadin) ------=_Part_33291_30845195.1163081491532 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 11/8/06, Colin Wright <colin.wright@denbridgemarine.com > wrote:
Just a few brief comments about the capitalisation discussion.

I'm not a fluent lojban reader, writer, speaker or listener.  I am and have
been for many years a strong lojban advocate, quietly telling people about
it, getting the sporadic individual interested, occasionally even enthused.
Not many, I admit, but I've tried.  I've even used it as a basis for some of
the mathematics masterclasses I run.  I'm trying to plant the seed, even
though I'm not good enough to give lessons and get things really rolling.

.ikoPACnalipa
.idoKAKnelenuCTUcafola.LOJban.

On that score, I'd appreciate contructive comments on this page:

    http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/LojbanLanguage.html?LojbanList

Anyway, back to the capitalisation ...

I personally find lOkadin's text impossible to read. I'm sure he's right, and
that if only I were a better lojbanist then I'd have no problem. Sadly I'm
not, and knowing my limitations, I probably never will be.  In short,
lOkadin's choice means I have great difficulty reading his text.

.idoJIMpemi

However, that's his choice.  If he wants to use a new style, the fact that I
can't read it is probably irrelevant.  I'm not proficient, so perhaps I don't
matter.  He's obviously more capable than I.
.inago'i
.ilemiKAKnenaZMAduledoKAKne
.i la'it.TE,Odor.ce.DJANcak.goiko'a cuDJUnola'ede'u
.imu'a ko'aCUSkule'isedu'u luzoi.gy. Actually, for those of us who can read it, we tend to find numerous errors, both grammatical and spelling. Even if you could parse the words out, it would likely still be unintelligible for you. .gy. .uinai go'i li'u

A similar comment applies to what Hugh wrote:

> cIlre is quite easy to read in many fonts.  If you've
> chosen one for your web browser in which it's not easy,
> well, it's hardly lOkadin's fault.

Absolutely.  I've chosen a font in my web browser, and my email package, that
makes the vast majority of my emails easy to read.  It's not lOkadin's fault
that it makes his text hard to read, potentially ambiguous.  I merely state
that such is the case.  It's his choice to use a new style that I, and
apparently others, find difficult.

.i.a'ozoCILrecuMLEcaNANdu

Finally:

On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 05:48:29PM -0500, Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin wrote:
> .ixudapema'acujIkcalamIkal.wAlas.poifIntila'o.py.
> http://coirodo.com.py.ipe'ima'anItcucUskulesedu'
> u.i'o.io.itrOcijmInalamIkal.ma'a.imikAkneku
> 'iminadjUnolovecUskufilamIkal.

Here lOkadin's style makes it impossible for my email package to locate the
URL and turn it into a link for me.  I mention this for the sake of
completeness.


So there's nothing to stop lOkadin from using "his" style, and I applaud his
attempts to be fully lojbanic, and artistic at the same time.  I'd just like
to make sure he knows he is excluding some people who might otherwise like to
remain involved.

.ia'osai lenudoSARjila.LOJban.keicuRANji
ni'okoGLEkiko
.ikoBANlifiko
.i.ui
mi'e kolin.
--
Dr C.D.Wright, Director of Innovation and Engineering
Denbridge Marine Limited, Cammell Lairds Waterfront Park,
Campbeltown Road, Birkenhead, Wirral, Merseyside, CH41 9HP.

Tel: +44 (0)151 649 4080
Fax: +44 (0)870 051 8953
Mob: +44 (0)7980 57 22 96


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.




--
ta'o(by the way)  We With You Network at: http://lokiworld.org .i(and)
more on Lojban: http://lojban.org
mu'oimi'e lOkadin (Over, my name is lOkadin) ------=_Part_33291_30845195.1163081491532--