From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Nov 13 19:09:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85982 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2006 03:07:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2006 03:07:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2006 03:07:21 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GjoXk-00084E-LY for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:01:00 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GjoVT-0007w5-EG; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:58:45 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:58:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GjoUz-0007vQ-9c for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:58:09 -0800 Received: from web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GjoUu-0007v8-Rl for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:58:09 -0800 Received: (qmail 93221 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Nov 2006 02:58:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20061114025803.93219.qmail@web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.237.213.146] by web81311.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:58:03 PST Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:58:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <45592027.80507@lojban.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-archive-position: 13153 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=pGjJ521qApuEeQdBRTNlCWbZPsjo2y5isYOZhE_VTssG4mnx9g X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27585 --- Bob LeChevalier wrote: > Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 07:30:47PM -0500, Robert McIvor wrote: > > > >>I will assume you wish to have a rule that does not require > >>recognizing the presence of the 'forbidden' combinations in the > >>word. To do this, one would have to have all cmene marked with > >>one of the name introducers like doi or la (I presume 'doi' is > >>normally used like 'hoi' in Loglan to precede a name used as a > >>vocative. If this be true, then the parser can strip off the > >>introducer, and the remainder up to the consonant and pause is a > >>name (I presume that a person without a speech defect would not > >>pause in the middle of a name). The LaPlace problem was in > >>sequential names. For sequential names we used the Loglan word > >>for hyphen 'ci', which added 'ci' to the list of name markers. > > > > > > You know, I think that actually works. Or, at least, I can't think > > of any problems off the top of my head. > > > > Call the Lojban name hyphen xi'i; laSTIvn.xi'iLAItl. has no > > ambiguity I can see. > > What about someone surnamed "xi'iLAItl." > > >>While writing this, I realized there may be a problem in the > >>generalization. The Loglan rules were intended for the situation > >>where the names were recognized as having the problem. The > >>stripping off of the name marker would only occur where another > >>name marker was at the beginning of a name, so the remainder > >>could be recognized as a name. > > > > > > I didn't follow that at all; can you give an example or something? > > > > > >>Whether this would work in general would depend on whether the > >>grammar allowed for a predicate to follow a name in an argument > >>e.g. le la Name predicate cu .... and the predicate happened to > >>have a name marker as the first syllable e.g. Loglan cibra = > >>bridge, I will have to consider the general case in more detail. > > > > That example causes no problem because "bra" can't be a cmene. > > a Lojban example, using Robby the robot, using Loglan's "ci" as the > hyphen. (A stranger cmavo like xi'i might be harder to find realistic > counterexamples for). > > la djan. cikre la rabis. > > la djan. ci krelarabis. Obviously no problem if written out wordly -- and none (or less) if written as the speech stream: {ci} is not stressed, so the algorithm give _{cIkre larabis}. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.