From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Nov 29 10:20:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37072 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2006 18:12:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2006 18:12:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.66.169) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2006 18:12:20 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpTIG-0004AD-Tx for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:32:25 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpTGq-00048j-OD; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:31:06 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpTGF-00048O-05 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:19 -0800 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpTG2-00048C-6W for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:18 -0800 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id m3so1690141uge for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.128.11 with SMTP id a11mr2472787hud.1164821403646; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.144.3 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:30:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:30:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061129154607.406534FDCA@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 13267 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.66.169 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Matt Arnold" From: "Matt Arnold" Reply-To: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Borges translation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=iAed0a7So8M-j6m9N8RzcaBDMrP0JBfRx0JSRIRJZZf-JWjTWA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27703 Wow, "bananas". I like that word for jbopre. :) {na} and {nai} should be removed from the second version, to mean what you want it to mean. There's no need to attempt to recreate the double negative from the original. I believe the last sentence ("we don't know what thing the universe is") qualifies for the use of {du}, a pro-selbri which means "is the same thing as". Also perhaps {kau} "indirect question, I know WHO went to the store". "Who went to the store"is a question, but "I know who went to the store" is a non-question statement that has the form of a question embedded in it. {kau} is a pro-sumti used for "who" in that sentence, and "what" in your sentence: "What thing is the universe?" {.i ma'a na djuno le du'u le munje cu du kau} Perhaps you could also have {da} to mean "thing" between {du} and {kau}, but someone more familiar with {kau} would know better than I how {da} would interact with it. By the way, Arika, slightly off topic: the latest post to the Lojban blog would be of interest to your conlang studies. http://community.livejournal.com/lojban/18918.html -Eppcott On 11/29/06, Arnt Richard Johansen wrote: > Ignoring the few typos, I get: > > On Wed, 29 Nov 2006, Arika Okrent wrote: > > > Here's what I walked in with: > > li'a ro da poi se ciste le munje fi'e zo'e cu cunso gi'e culno so'i smadi > > .i da poi krinu le go'i cu caisampu > > .i ma'a na djuno ma le munje > > Obviously, the structure of the universe, devised by someone, is random > and full of persons who guess. There is a reason for that, which *IS* > simple. What is it that we don't know about the universe? > > > Here's what came out of the discussion -- while it certainly wasn't settled definitively, it got some general agreement (with the caveat that my notes are hard to read, and that the gismu choices weren't fully settled): > > > > li'a ro da poi ve ganzu le munje cu cunso na gi'e nai barda lo ka sesmadi > > .i da poi krinu la'e di'u cu mutsce sampu > > .i da zo'u ma'a na djuno le du'u le munje cu mokau > > Obviously, not every ontology of the universe is random, neither is its > amount of conjectures large. The reason for this is very simple. As > regards something, we don't know what the universe is like. > > -- > Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ > [T]he savvy DXer will usually bet a pair of nickels he can pinpoint the DXCC > country of the "chopity-chow-pit chow-chow-pi-chow" even before he hears the > call sign. -John F. Lindholm, QST vol. 66 no. 3 p. 83 > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.