From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Nov 13 13:14:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97896 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2006 21:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Nov 2006 21:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2006 21:08:16 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjj1b-0007hN-LE for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:07:27 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjj0u-0007gU-Ia; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:06:50 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:06:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjj0S-0007gA-OQ for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:06:16 -0800 Received: from centrmmtao02.cox.net ([70.168.83.82]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjj0M-0007fu-U8 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:06:16 -0800 Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by centrmmtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.03 201-2131-130-104-20060516) with ESMTP id <20061113210613.LMBD19547.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:06:13 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id mM5E1V00j3y5FKc0000000; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:05:16 -0500 Message-ID: <4558DE3F.4030409@lojban.org> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:06:07 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <45589298.20904@lojban.org> <4558BD0A.2030602@ropine.com> In-Reply-To: <4558BD0A.2030602@ropine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 13102 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Bob LeChevalier From: Bob LeChevalier Reply-To: lojbab@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=X8NUduUYFvdEjsA9_Z-Swfxug431aSROUEm1QpC5QKO47MzBqw X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27535 Seth Gordon wrote: > Bob LeChevalier wrote: > >>ONLY if a word is in cmene form is it illegal to have a "la". Using a >>gismu or lujvo or a fu'ivla as a name ("la latmo" for "Latin") has no >>restriction. >> >>Indeed, I would imagine that native Lojbanists would indeed use brivla >>to name things, rather than Lojbanize foreign words. That is indeed how >>several languages work. > > > The tutorial and reference material on Lojban that I've seen don't say a > lot about this option. E.g., _lojban. bei loi co'a cilre_ suggests that > since "Mei Li" is Chinese for "beautiful", then someone named Mei Li > could Lojbanize her name as "la melb." But why not "la melbi"? > > Perhaps the authors of all these works just assumed that they didn't > need to spell out this aspect of the grammar because it was so obvious, > but it wasn't obvious to me.... It wasn't considered a "beginner" feature for English language speakers learning the language, and all the teaching materials devised so far have been written by at-best-intermediate speakers for the benefit of beginners. The potential grammar of vocatives (things that can follow "doi" or "mi'e") is non-trivial. Likewise, sumti grammar can get quite complicated, since we designed things to be generically compatible with every feature of every language that we could fit in, so as not to unnecessarily metaphysically biased in the grammar. Even CLL, which tries to explain a lot of non-beginner features of the language was limited by the capabilities of John, myself, and a few others to come up with examples and usages wherein these features were used. How much of the possibilities will ever see actual usage, we can only guess; we can't easily teach what we barely understood how to define, and not how and when to use ourselves. lojbab To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.