From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Nov 15 03:56:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31587 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2006 11:50:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2006 11:50:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2006 11:50:48 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkJDM-00076f-Ga for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:46:01 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkJAM-00074C-IB; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:43:13 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:42:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkJ9H-00073D-Ie for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:51 -0800 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkJ8h-00072E-GJ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:35 -0800 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id c2so96800ugf for ; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.67.92.1 with SMTP id u1mr2742401ugl.1163590866941; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.2? ( [81.7.38.141]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id k1sm747545ugf.2006.11.15.03.41.06; Wed, 15 Nov 2006 03:41:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <455AFCD0.8080402@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:41:04 +0000 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20061114173413.83990.qmail@web81314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <455A35B4.5020804@lojban.org> <455A4F10.2080600@gmail.com> <737b61f30611141955l74a5edc2h3121344c355f3d06@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <737b61f30611141955l74a5edc2h3121344c355f3d06@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-archive-position: 13179 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: and.rosta@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: And Rosta From: And Rosta Reply-To: and.rosta@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=IbE5GByt_-EABoKSrEmGzdvsV2n6kA_awNBHSqeyZpJz5PgEkA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27613 Chris Capel, On 15/11/2006 03:55: > On 11/14/06, And Rosta wrote: >> The solution is >> rather to replace the words {la}, {lai} and {doi} by {la.}, {lai.} and >> {doi.}, i.e. [la?], [lai?], [doi?]. > > Your "realized as a" symbol, which I assume is some IPA, shows up as a > "?" for me. Is it a glottal stop? Yes. Ascii IPA, not a mangled character encoding. > I have a bit of difficulty pronouncing a glottal stop in the middle of > a speech stream, and getting it to sound different from without, or > from being apparent enough. For instance, the two > > la.clsn > laclsn > > sound pretty much the same the way I say them. In my English English accent, _lash_ is [laS] and _latch_ is [la?S], so one can at least say that the contrast is not exotic. In Lojban, where /./ appears in difficult clusters you could insert the buffer vowel (I use [Y]), so e.g. /la.clsn/ could be [la?YSlsn]. That's what I tend to do with the /./ at the end of cmevla, e.g. {la .alis. cu} [la?alis?YSu]. --And. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.