From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Nov 29 13:35:47 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72838 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2006 21:29:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Nov 2006 21:29:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.66.169) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Nov 2006 21:29:12 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpWHD-0000ie-SM for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:43:32 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpWG6-0000gt-O7; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:42:28 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:42:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpWFe-0000gO-Fa for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:41:54 -0800 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpWFU-0000g2-4y for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:41:54 -0800 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c31so4675373nfb for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.120.15 with SMTP id s15mr673028buc.1164832902164; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.115.20 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560611291241h5147e528j4ff0d1586c0e0d84@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:41:42 -0300 In-Reply-To: <20061129154607.406534FDCA@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061129154607.406534FDCA@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 13269 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.66.169 X-eGroups-From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Borges translation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=sDUyn9V7JnFIki_AcSohS6kHNlaOkoYz8K8OdYN8_0_GEGp8YQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27705 Spanish: > notoriamente no hay clasificación del universo que no sea arbitraria y > conjetural. La razón es muy simple: no sabemos qué cosa es el universo. English: > it is clear that there is no classification of the universe not being arbitrary > and full of conjectures. The reason for this is very simple: we do not know > what thing the universe is. Lojban: > li'a ro da poi ve ganzu le munje cu cunso na gi'e nai barda lo ka sesmadi > .i da poi krinu la'e di'u cu mutsce sampu > .i da zo'u ma'a na djuno le du'u le munje cu mokau I think I would prefer {ckaji} (or eventually {ricfu}) over {barda}. Also, the use of {da} there is confusing. I assume {ro da} was meant to be {no da}, otherwise it says the exact opposite of the original. But even with {no da} the proper sense is lost, because it says that no classification is neither, leaving open the possibility that some clasifications are arbitrary but not conjectural, or conjectural but not arbitrary. The original is stronger: No classfication is other than both arbitrary and conjectural. So you either have to eliminate both negations {ro ve ganzu cu cunso gi'e smadykai}, or go with {no ve ganzu cu cunso na gi'a nai smadykai}, or (the most faithful I think): {no ve ganzu cu na'e ke cunso je smadykai}. So I propose: li'a no ve ganzu be le munje cu na'e ke cunso je smadykai .i le krinu cu mutce sampu gi'e du'u ma'a na djuno lo du'u le munje cu mo kau mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.