From lojban-out@lojban.org Mon Nov 13 18:51:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64661 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2006 02:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Nov 2006 02:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Nov 2006 02:46:48 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjo13-0007Kr-IT for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:27:13 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjo0Q-0007Jc-CO; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:26:39 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:26:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjnzz-0007Ig-Dd for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:26:07 -0800 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.224]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gjnzr-0007HV-D9 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:26:07 -0800 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i11so623351wra for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.86.10 with SMTP id j10mr546753agb.1163471156219; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.44.8 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:25:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <737b61f30611131825u13bc2266o11fd8055e807c602@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:25:56 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20061114013339.GB24729@chain.digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <325816428.20061113190842@mail.ru> <20061113171203.GD24729@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <4558B5C3.9020006@kli.org> <87d57rxf3v.fsf@gmail.com> <4558E2A1.9010907@lojban.org> <4558F43D.4070601@kli.org> <45591BFC.7080808@lojban.org> <20061114013339.GB24729@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 13146 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Chris Capel" From: "Chris Capel" Reply-To: pdf23ds@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=MTJGehO7z5We38gyomj6Ksv-JVSH5p0dw_YR_pCbKJeknVqOEg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27581 On 11/13/06, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 08:29:32PM -0500, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > > The la rule isn't required with standard (spaces included) > > orthography, and without a speaking community. When we have a > > skilled speaking community, we can find out whether la in names in > > the spoken language causes problems for humans - after all, humans > > can parse English and other human languages successfully, and they > > aren't audiovisually isomorphic. > > So it's OK to leave a rule that people will often violate because > people can deal with that sort of thing? > > That's just... It's like you *want* to kill Lojban. > > I want a language that will *actually* have audio-visual > isomorphism. In practice. With real people. Is this really about audio-visual isomorphism? I mean, if the "la" restriction weren't there, wouldn't *both* written and spoken Lojban be technically ambiguous? (Even though the intent would be clearer in the written form, given spaces?) Then it would be a matter of unambiguous parsing. But since both written and spoken would be ambiguous in the same way, we'd still have isomorphism. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet) To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.