From lojban-out@lojban.org Wed Nov 08 21:16:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26981 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2006 05:11:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Nov 2006 05:11:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2006 05:11:16 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gi28e-0003tq-0u for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:07:44 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gi285-0003sz-BB; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:07:13 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:07:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gi27e-0003sJ-Jw for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:06:42 -0800 Received: from f66.mail.ru ([194.67.57.102]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gi27b-0003s5-Eo for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:06:42 -0800 Received: from mail by f66.mail.ru with local id 1Gi27Z-00045Q-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:06:37 +0300 Received: from [212.17.0.61] by win.mail.ru with HTTP; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:06:37 +0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:06:37 +0300 In-Reply-To: =?windows-1251?Q?<20061109045003.GF23121=40chain.digitalkingdom.org>?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 12970 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ybatura@mail.ru X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: Yanis Batura From: Yanis Batura Reply-To: ybatura@mail.ru Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" in names X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=_ZBB3GdnN4T7qG9OpNWIUl9iS1aUeTYwnTEPwbs7Aq7OQDjpVg X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27411 -----Original Message----- From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban-list@lojban.org Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:50:04 -0800 Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" in names > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 07:34:08AM +0300, Yanis Batura wrote: > > I am absolutely sure that a native Lojban speaker will have the > > rule comfortly sitting in his/her brain. I am absolutely sure that > > given a good special training we will all internalize this rule. > > I utterly disagree. More to the point, there is *no evidence* for > your view, and lots for mine. I see your point. In the 19th century, people didn't fly on airplanes. Now they do. No one has ever created or made special excersizes to internalize this rule. Lojban is different from natural languages, and it requires making many special excersizes to master it. It requires special approaches to learn. I think memorizing {la}-prohibition rule is like getting accustomed to the {cu} before selbri. All beginners frequently forget {cu} and say {le ninmu prami le nanmu} but after practice they stop forgetting it. {cu} is 100 times more frequent and obvious than cases of {la} prohibition. > > > A rule we can't follow that, in the not-following, breaks > > > audio-visual isomorphism is, to me, a total travesty of one of > > > the most important goals of the language. Whether someone gets > > > to use the "la" sound in their name or not is totally irrelevant > > > to my concerns. We're *breaking the language*, and it has to > > > stop. > > > > Your suggestions? (sorry if I missed something back from 2005 :) > > Pauses before all names. > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=The%20Case%20Against%20LA This suggestion is reasonable, but it has two disadvantages: 1) {la.} is longer and a bit harder to pronounce than {la} if used with consonant-starting names. 2) You'll have to change the language. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.