From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Nov 14 20:23:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95747 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2006 04:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Nov 2006 04:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.49.134) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Nov 2006 04:00:38 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkBtu-0000gd-DZ for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:57:26 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.49.134]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkBsD-0000ey-TY; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:55:47 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkBrh-0000eh-Hv for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:55:09 -0800 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.238]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GkBrb-0000eR-GD for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:55:09 -0800 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i11so14373wra for ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.156.3 with SMTP id d3mr1984082qbe.1163562901721; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:55:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.44.8 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:55:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <737b61f30611141955l74a5edc2h3121344c355f3d06@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:55:01 -0600 In-Reply-To: <455A4F10.2080600@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061114173413.83990.qmail@web81314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <455A35B4.5020804@lojban.org> <455A4F10.2080600@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 13176 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.49.134 X-eGroups-From: "Chris Capel" From: "Chris Capel" Reply-To: pdf23ds@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: "la" rule X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=NFvnnlxGWv50Ez4leRvyhnvAfer6-gYeGmQGYu-m7h70fBGEDQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27610 On 11/14/06, And Rosta wrote: > Bob LeChevalier, On 14/11/2006 21:31: > > Those who like the pause-all-the-time solution can implement the > > practice of pausing all the time to show that in fact people can and > > will learn to do so, which could at least partially negate this > > argument; that is a legal dialect. > > "Pause-all-the-time" is a very misleading description. The solution is rather to replace the words {la}, {lai} and {doi} by {la.}, {lai.} and {doi.}, i.e. [la?], [lai?], [doi?]. > > The idea that the phoneme /./ is realized by a pause at all, let alone as its primary allophone, is lunacy in a human language. A much more sensible analysis of the situation in Lojban is that the phoneme /./ (realized as [?]) can be unrealized when at the edge of a phonological string. Your "realized as a" symbol, which I assume is some IPA, shows up as a "?" for me. Is it a glottal stop? I have a bit of difficulty pronouncing a glottal stop in the middle of a speech stream, and getting it to sound different from without, or from being apparent enough. For instance, the two la.clsn laclsn sound pretty much the same the way I say them. Chris Capel -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet) To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.