From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Nov 30 07:46:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44589 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2006 15:39:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Nov 2006 15:39:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.66.169) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Nov 2006 15:39:23 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpnnR-0006Hn-9s for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:25:59 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gpnl2-0006El-S1; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:23:43 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:23:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpnkT-0006EM-19 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:22:53 -0800 Received: from ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com ([205.158.62.152]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GpnkM-0006ED-9B for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:22:52 -0800 Received: by ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 7637A4FE9C; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:22:44 +0000 (GMT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:22:44 -0800 Received: from [68.238.190.37] by ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com with http for arika@okrent.com; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:22:44 -0800 X-Originating-Server: ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20061130152244.7637A4FE9C@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-archive-position: 13273 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arika@okrent.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.66.169 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Arika Okrent" From: "Arika Okrent" Reply-To: arika@okrent.com Subject: (no subject) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=M02q_KJwCd9ac92IVPCQdHNZocYFbYTeiBHEGQamWG3glpvDTA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27710 Yeah, I made a few errors typing that in. It should have been "no da poi" and mutsce is really mutce. My goal was to be as faithful to the original meaning while at the same time being as unambiguous as possible. That's why I wanted the sentences to be linked somehow (le krinu cu... the reason for what?, thence the da poi krinu). ckaji did come up in the discussion for "full". Other gismu issues were whether cunso really captures "arbitrary". I was never happy with that choice. It doesn't capture the idea of "chosen at someone's whim" (the argument structure includes x3 "with probability distribution") but it's good enough I guess. This quote is about an early invented language by John Wilkins. (I have translated it into his language as well) but I think it applies to lojban insofar as it aspires to be a 'culturally neutral' language. lojban has to have a lexion that allows it to interface with the real world, which means it has to make some assumptions about the organization of the world. This isn't necessarily a problem -- all languages do that -- but it calls the neutrality of lojban into question. We touched on this a little in the discussion. I don't think everyone agreed with me. Some other things I forgot to ask about: Why was Logfest first advertised as jbonunsla, then jboselsla, and then back to jbonunsla? What happened there? Could Pierre write out for me some of the rhymes he did? One was something like 'the male cow is reddish brown' and the other had something to do with a turkey. Thanks, arika ************ Arika Okrent arika@okrent.com http://www.wickedoasis.org/arika To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.