From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Dec 10 15:18:21 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GtXvm-0002aE-Al for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:18:02 -0800 Received: from web81315.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.41]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GtXvh-0002a1-7U for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:18:02 -0800 Received: (qmail 58178 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Dec 2006 23:17:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=gBVXoqerXkQBqWKxbW3YGpoD1Zh4yC+daMwMKNCXF0SXB0AS79e6iZP//qn8GZTBTBKQT86YzB7lLJt7d/O1cWNH70ivNNsBKLbZoX+V/hEJW9KrPWpUA/9cQt0IiF+8DiJAHV1mHn0uuoLlkUaGq//4/9/fPcmVRCq7oQuoVjs=; X-YMail-OSG: SN5KMvoVM1lKfaT65xSssJxkO6HiKabl6jD8V_iUDFf7B7MWzZZW43hWAvWqU39UnvXIU6_2oo8.RMhkFNhFP09j54eAFeqWIqR34cMNP4c3qH7NE8rtO3MidBcgFO9OAO.u.9LuoAK9bXc- Received: from [70.237.196.59] by web81315.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:17:55 PST Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:17:55 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: [lojban] Re: Further lujvo hunt: Class society/classless society To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <457C8E1C.1020605@bommelibom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <958193.56660.qm@web81315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-archive-position: 13331 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list {jikca} is probably more to the point than {jecta} since the society need not be involved in governing at all (the state may have withered away, for example, or the classes may be iirrelevant to governance - e.g., India). But, of course, that is about members of the society, not the society itself, nor is there a place for the society involved. But the sort of class of interest is clearly {jikca klesi}, social classes -- now just to find the society. The grouping problem is harder if you want to be precise, but you could just say "social class lacking society" (if you could say "society") by inserting {claxu}. Putting in the finickies to get the {nal} modifying just {klesi} would make the whole unwieldy, I suspect. Not that the grouping of a four place lujvo is transparent to begin with. --- Einar Faanes wrote: > coi rodo > > I'm continuing to try to construct lujvo. And now it is "class society" > and "classless society" which is under the toolkit. This is what I've > come up with so far. Would be nice if people which know this far better > than me take a look at it. > > Class society > > klesi: k1 (mass/si'o) is a class/category/subgroup/subset within k2 with > defining property k3 (ka) > jecta: j1 is a polity/state governing territory/domain j2; > [government/territory relationship] > > (klesi jecta) > k2=j1, k3 is removed > > kleje'a: j1=k2 is a polity/state with class/category/subgroup k1 > governing territory j2 > > Classless society would probably be {nalkleje'a}: j1=k2 is not a > polity/state with class/category/subgroup k1 governing territory j2. > >From the definition it feels wrong since it IS a political community, > but without classes. Is there a way to negate just {klesi}, or is there > other solutions. > > mu'omi'e .ainar. > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.