From nobody@chain.digitalkingdom.org Wed Dec 20 12:48:00 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gx8Lc-0001zp-2G for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:47:32 -0800 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.172]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gx8LS-0001za-FI for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:47:31 -0800 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id m3so2203603uge for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:47:20 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=O52KN6FPuEN4JgkoOj5ElwqB0J8iqUhpV3GfgYR2oF6tyyTueE2q9zSsvSQMIxtQjgaMpR9oB0nk7VEE4UolgdrcyeVzOXzh7qiwTQYqqHnTlxA4xXJpn7nbGX0xI5A7cMZHfiHQZTlKQ54s+EW/j3lDn6Cv6hRUOYtjqqrw0QY= Received: by 10.78.205.7 with SMTP id c7mr5460465hug.1166647640223; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.78.144.4 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:47:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:47:19 -0500 From: "Matt Arnold" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: BPFK In-Reply-To: <20061220203932.77107.qmail@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061220203932.77107.qmail@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 13375 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list I am the place to send issues, positions, and arguments for the time being, and I will make sure they get where they need to go. I want to assemble the programmers willing to take up the code that has been written so far and bring it to completion. I'll build requirements demos as necessary. I'm not a programmer, but I'm willing to drive this project. -Eppcott On 12/20/06, John E Clifford wrote: > This is -- and always has been -- a great idfea. Alas, the site given and those dependent from it > seem to say that it is still just an idea, wiithout anything like implementation. the last dated > word there is three years (and change) ago. Is there an actual place (as your offer of help > suggests) to send issues, positions and arguments? If so, where? If not, what remains to be > done? > > --- Matt Arnold wrote: > > > I have recently accepted the job of jatna for the baupla fuzykamni > > (Language Definition Committee). I've been interviewing BPFK members a > > lot in the past few days. The problems of BPFK are not at all that the > > commissioners are lazy! They care about it. The lack of work stems > > largely from disincentives. > > > > #1 Few of them are willing to be thorough on a document that won't > > pass, because that work is seen as going to waste. They don't know the > > likelihood that this will happen because they can't predict the > > political will of the community. > > > > #2 Several of them don't want to participate in a debate that will be > > meaningless because the process is weighted in favor of yes votes. > > They are weighted in favor of yes votes in order to have momentum and > > move out of doldrums. But a lot of the doldrum is due to these two > > disincentives! > > > > The solution is to know the overall political will of the community, > > and to have a browsable, accessible map of the various positions so > > that one's effort at debate won't vanish uselessly into the mists of > > history. That system has been called an Elephant. For those who are > > not familiar, please go here for a description: > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Elephant > > > > I believe BPFK work needs to be building a Document of Record on the > > range of expert positions on the issues and the pro and con arguments. > > Most Lojban enthusiasts will agree a well-defined language (or > > "debugging", if you will) should be the single most urgent step in the > > Lojban language project so that all other projects can go forward with > > confidence of having a firmer foundation. Toward that end, the > > completion and implementation of the Elephant is the Manhattan > > Project, the most single urgently-needed tool. > > > > I will be happy to take people's positions, sign up on the Elephant > > with their identity on their behalf, and copy and paste their > > contributions if they don't want to learn a new system. > > > > Please step forward if you have software skills. > > > > -Eppcott > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.