From lojban-out@lojban.org Sun Dec 03 08:13:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70155 invoked from network); 3 Dec 2006 16:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Dec 2006 16:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO chain.digitalkingdom.org) (64.81.66.169) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Dec 2006 16:05:13 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GqtoX-00025I-MJ for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 08:03:37 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gqtmm-0001h5-GA; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 08:01:55 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 03 Dec 2006 08:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gqtm6-0001gM-Fw for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 08:01:08 -0800 Received: from web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.125]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Gqtlj-0001fh-SN for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 08:00:54 -0800 Received: (qmail 99977 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Dec 2006 16:00:42 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: q5j9n_IVM1nhpbkeXxxdfMSvNd_y.8601iqKfrMzDQMYMFDfk6ijezspcp7.6YG5bynlHVRI1jOyDt3M8B8KGQ4x5QwcG8qQGUiJP8epAKjddQgd2r0tydHc9Wg1bcYIScX2JXCz Received: from [70.237.196.59] by web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 08:00:42 PST Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 08:00:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20061203152427.D7D8C2F911@ws6-3.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <548082.98281.qm@web81309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-archive-position: 13302 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 64.81.66.169 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: S-W/ was Re: (no subject)/Borges X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=2hEItYmBGdfU8S15r_kcOxVlTd3jdQS-G3aSKlx4w89hFjP7fA X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27740 Exactly what role gender/classifier system places in all the metaphysical argle-bargle is not very clear from either Sapir or Whorf. What is clear is that it does play very little of the obvious sort of role -- things are not treated/viewed like their gramatical gender, in general (see all the familiar odd cases). The same applies to case/prepositions, except inso far as the overall pattern applies. That is, languages which do a lot with bound morphemes (case or the expanded forms in say Finnish)may treat these sorts of relations differently from those that use free morphemes (prepositions, wherever they occur). If so (and I think -- given the virtual absence of any reliable data on any of this -- that we cannot say one way or the other), we would exp[ect Lojban to be somewhat more like Finnish than English in whatever area this plays a role. --- Arika Okrent wrote: > The effects on > > world-view and > > habitual behavior is attributed to obligatory grammatical categories of a > > language. So, > > vocabulary plays no role in the matter at all > > Except that so much of what would normally be represented by case systems, or classifier systems > or other such grammatical apparatus is stuffed into the lexically specified (and therefore > obligitory) argument structure of the gismu -- this is the aspect of the loglangs that is the > strangest to me. And also the place where the "classification of the universe" problem comes > in. > > -a > > ************ > Arika Okrent > arika@okrent.com > http://www.wickedoasis.org/arika > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.