From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jan 07 05:53:43 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H3YSK-0000LM-Mb for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:53:02 -0800 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.224]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H3YSC-0000KZ-Jd for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:52:58 -0800 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so10670112wxd for ; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:52:51 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=GZCb4NNqZFVw+V4AGGI7cbQycbhrFSCqaFd5UXak+luJfrUV9kyCKrqiJSWtCxv/jUKz4gfrWUTT8/tYLJwCuWd3MA/hlc7Vjpz7VqZmvZpfZzBFkkv+FYafNxW6/e7VZ8rR3iMApVke6D+o5vUYekHaAwSSOAz/s2bcx3on8g0= Received: by 10.90.56.14 with SMTP id e14mr1613275aga.1168177971212; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.31.16 with HTTP; Sun, 7 Jan 2007 05:52:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3ccac5f10701070552o6995a1fetce44cc0fd724ee82@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 16:52:50 +0300 From: "Cyril Slobin" To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Duty, promice etc... In-Reply-To: <925d17560701070458t7243c3a0n2368d08b771cd615@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560701060757o1c0b3914w2f28416a2858cb29@mail.gmail.com> <611088.72555.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <925d17560701070458t7243c3a0n2368d08b771cd615@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 83fb7b235a04ea7b X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 13522 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: slobin@ice.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list coi xorxes > Since promises, requests and orders are events (albeit unrealized ones), > they can be referred to in Lojban with {lo nu ...}: {lo nu mi ba dunda > lo relselxi'u do}, {lo nu lo smuci cu nenri lo re moi dacru}. And we can also, > of course, refer to these unrealized events by other descriptions {lo se nupre}, > {lo se cpedu}, {lo se minde}, etc. I opine that "being an unrealized event" is event about event: {lo nu broda be lo nu brode}, where {lo nu brode} is event promised/requested/ordered and {lo nu broda} is the state of its unrealizedness.The good example of such {lo nu broda} is {lo nu bilga}. In fact {lo nu bilga} is a very general kind of unrealizedness (like "nu" is very general kind of event) - whether you have promise, request or order, you are in some or other way obliged to do so. I opine the event of promising, requesting and commanding ( {lo nu nupre}, {lo nu cpedu} and {lo nu minde}) are good for x3 of {bilga}. So, "I am bound by a promise" is {mi bilga lo nu mi brode lo nu mi nupre}. Because it is (or should be) a very common pattern, I suggest a series of lujvo in form {nupybilga} whith following place stucture: x1 = nupre1 = bilga1 "who is promised and therefore obliged", x2 = nupre2 = bilga2 "what is promiced and therefore obliged"; bilga3 = {le nu nupre} and omitteded from lujvo place structure, x3 = nupre3 "beneficiary/victim of a promise". ... noi se gusni fi le solri poi se cmene lu sa'u tarci li'u ... -- Cyril Slobin To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.