From lojban-out@lojban.org Thu Jan 04 08:43:25 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80150 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2007 16:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2007 16:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net) (69.17.117.3) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2007 16:33:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 25119 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2007 16:23:35 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 4 Jan 2007 16:23:35 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2VNM-0003NV-BZ for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:23:32 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2VMW-0003L5-2R; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:22:57 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:21:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2VKo-0003Kg-7M for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:20:54 -0800 Received: from express.cec.wustl.edu ([128.252.21.16]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2VKf-0003KY-VG for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:20:53 -0800 Received: from hive.cec.wustl.edu (hive.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.21.14]) by express.cec.wustl.edu (8.13.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id l04GKdhV015958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:20:39 -0600 (CST) Received: from hive.cec.wustl.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hive.cec.wustl.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l04GJ3Et032206; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:19:03 -0600 Received: from localhost (adam@localhost) by hive.cec.wustl.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) with ESMTP id l04GJ30r032203; Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:19:03 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: hive.cec.wustl.edu: adam owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:19:03 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <3ccac5f10701040724r44dfae9u9480f7dba69c9cb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <3ccac5f10701040724r44dfae9u9480f7dba69c9cb4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 13481 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: adam@pubcrawler.org X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: There is a very long (but informative) paper on this at http://www.lojban.org/files/papers/lujvopap.3 It details the gasnu-based pattern, in particular. On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Cyril Slobin wrote: [...] Content analysis details: (-2.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.0 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 69.17.117.3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "Adam D. Lopresto" From: "Adam D. Lopresto" Reply-To: adam@pubcrawler.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Regular vs dictionary lujvo X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=ouI1giWjZl_1uvTGIhqVjH48YsibQD6UXalyA1gGFOEhbB-8hQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27921 There is a very long (but informative) paper on this at http://www.lojban.org/files/papers/lujvopap.3 It details the gasnu-based pattern, in particular. On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Cyril Slobin wrote: > coi rodo > > We all know that: > 1) Tanru have many possible meanings and you must guess the right one > from context. > 2) Lujvo have one meaning and you must to look up it from dictionary. > > But in reality we have a class of a "regular" lujvo which meaning > anyone can guess. I will not bother to dig into the dictionary for a > lujvo starting with sel- or tol- or ending with -mau or -gau. And if a > dictionary will give a different meaning than I have guessed, I will > conclude that this dictionary is Bad, Wrong and Evil. > > But there is a trap. Consider a lujvo "pofygau". Almost anyone will > understand it as "to break (agentive)", and this meaning is listed in > gimste. But someone in lojban_ru community noted that other possible > meaning is "to be a broken agent", "to be unable to cause something". > I believe that most of the sane lojbanists will prefer the first > meaning over the second. Why? Because the "something+gau" pattern is > much more recognizable than "pof+something". "-gau" is more affixish > than "pof-". > > So, I conclude, it will be a Good Thing to have a list of common lujvo > patterns that need not be listed in dictionary, and to have a rule to > resolve conflicts when a given lujvo match two or more patterns. > > For the second goal I suggest the following two rules: > 1) Rafsi derived from cmavo is more affixish (has a higher priority) > than rafsi derived from gismu. > 2) Unless the first rule gives an answer, rafsi at the end of lujvo is > more affixish (has a higher priority) than rafsi at te beginning of > lujvo. > > Any comments? > > ... Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away ... > > -- Adam Lopresto http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/ You see things and say 'Why?'; but I dream things that never were and I say 'Why not?' --George Bernard Shaw To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.