From lojban-out@lojban.org Fri Jan 05 15:17:05 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9289 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2007 23:05:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2007 23:05:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net) (69.17.117.10) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2007 23:05:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 31622 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2007 22:52:07 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 5 Jan 2007 22:52:07 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2xur-0000nQ-Nn for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:52:03 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2xuR-0000mJ-LE; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:51:43 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2xtK-0000lM-8S for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:50:27 -0800 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.184]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H2xt9-0000kL-Nt for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:50:25 -0800 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l36so6129645nfa for ; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:50:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.167.5 with SMTP id p5mr2637811bue.1168037414064; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:50:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.115.20 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:50:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560701051450v6f30c761v3691f4b69289e100@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 19:50:13 -0300 In-Reply-To: <63294.60437.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560701051231y30cacef5yd2e3faa430ca3833@mail.gmail.com> <63294.60437.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 13514 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 1/5/07, John E Clifford wrote: > All of this suggests that we may want to rethink just how > the Lojban words {nupre, bilga} and maybe others are related > to the English. {nupre} is fine for the speech act, perhaps, > but has to be used with care in translating other expressions > involving "promise." [...] Content analysis details: (-2.5 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.1 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 69.17.117.10 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" Reply-To: jjllambias@gmail.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Duty, promice etc... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=F_e6LWC1g9h814batuBS2w4E2xfdUkk9NoqFqnbSMMupKf2RGQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27953 On 1/5/07, John E Clifford wrote: > All of this suggests that we may want to rethink just how > the Lojban words {nupre, bilga} and maybe others are related > to the English. {nupre} is fine for the speech act, perhaps, > but has to be used with care in translating other expressions > involving "promise." Which English expressions involving the noun "promise" should not be translated by {lo se nupre} in Lojban? Which English expressions involving the noun "obligation" should not be translated by {lo se bilga} in Lojban? > Incidentally, the use of "promise" for the thing promised is > becoming stranger and stranger to my ear: as it is claimed for > various contexts, it seems less and less plausible at home. > "I got what he promised me" means something very different > from "I got his promise to me," for example. "What he promised me" can refer to some event, in which case it is a promise (= lo se nupre), but it can also refer to an object, in which case it is a kind of sumti raising for "what he promised to give me". "He did what he promised me" ko'a pu zukte lo se nupre be ko'a bei mi "I got what he promised me" mi pu cpacu lo poi'i ko'a nupre lo nu dunda ce'u mi mi pu cpacu da poi ko'a nupre lo nu dunda ke'a mi mu'o mi'e xorxes To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.