From lojban-out@lojban.org Tue Jan 02 13:23:37 2007 Return-Path: X-Sender: lojban-out@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66981 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2007 20:57:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2007 20:57:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net) (69.17.117.3) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2007 20:57:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 1072 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2007 20:29:31 -0000 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) (envelope-sender ) by mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 2 Jan 2007 20:29:31 -0000 Received: from lojban-out by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H1qGG-0003uq-7x for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:29:29 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H1qFq-0003rw-8p; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:29:09 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:28:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H1qEu-0003rR-Ko for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:28:05 -0800 Received: from web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.118]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H1qEo-0003qz-6J for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:28:04 -0800 Received: (qmail 59298 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2007 20:27:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 2fmGBtIVM1l.6XnJBIQRl7aigdkt4TB7rLDWSG8iHxOJjrn1Mc0a7P.l73_kAJOY05W5A2p960LCW9WlDM1yjbfWH8ddDtMVPu9QwWeQirVez0fv0UL_t9gkBKUL1NYa4Zw51REurfBBfbY- Received: from [70.237.196.59] by web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:27:51 PST Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 12:27:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <906225.58131.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 X-Spam-Score-Int: -6 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 13455 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-list: lojban-list X-Spam-Score: -0.7 X-Spam-Score-Int: -6 X-Spam-Bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "chain.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Not that it will make a difference to me, but I hope you are right about your predictions. As for the virtues of Lojban, so far as I can find, there is no evidence that speaking Lojban even fluently improves your thinking: gets you to be more precise or less ambiguous, gets you to be more "logical" (create and follow arguments better, avoid fallacies, etc.) Anyone who is optimistic about these features should read a few Logic journals. [...] Content analysis details: (-0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.2 DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE RBL: Envelope sender in abuse.rfc-ignorant.org 1.7 DNS_FROM_RFC_POST RBL: Envelope sender in postmaster.rfc-ignorant.org -0.0 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 69.17.117.3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 X-eGroups-From: John E Clifford From: John E Clifford Reply-To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Subject: [lojban] Re: Mass Lojban Conversion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=116389790; y=3vlQzGrlggwj1VwypSaYOx16M9-jLm2H-X5OlgGAfVjyRiogDQ X-Yahoo-Profile: lojban_out X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 27895 Not that it will make a difference to me, but I hope you are right about your predictions. As for the virtues of Lojban, so far as I can find, there is no evidence that speaking Lojban even fluently improves your thinking: gets you to be more precise or less ambiguous, gets you to be more "logical" (create and follow arguments better, avoid fallacies, etc.) Anyone who is optimistic about these features should read a few Logic journals. --- "Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin" wrote: > If you think with an ambiguous language, you vaguely know what you are > thinking about. If you are thinking in Lojban you know precisly what you are > thinking about. This is one of the advantages of Lojban over RARbau. > > > The other advantage, is that currenntly a Lojban programming language is in > development. Once it is fully implemented, expressing yourself in Lojban, or > lojSAMban if the Lojban community isn't willing to accept whatever > modifications will be necessary to fully disambiguate the language -- > doesn't seem like we'll need to do anything funky atm, already made a parser > and working on the .jbo to .pl conversion right now. > > la.ma'aSELtcan. is a religion based on math. Mainly on predicate logic. The > goal is for we with you to live as long as we with you want. We with you > want you to have god like powers -- from the perspective of a homo sapien > sapien. We with you can achieve our goals together. > > If you live to 2025 medical technology will have reached a point that we can > stop and reverse your aging, in the late 2010's we should have nano-bot > blood on the market that would allow you to hold your breath for half an > hour under water as well as take care of nutrition and anything else you > program them to do. > > So the followers of this religion start off by understanding the main > concepts, which are being laid out on http://lokadin.blogspot.com official > irc channel is irc://irc.oftc.net/#ma'a > > On 1/2/07, Seth Gordon wrote: > > > > Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin wrote: > > > > > > I'm not sure if you are aware, but all of you have an advantage over > > > natural language speakers. Ambiguous languages can define vaguely what > > > you are thinking about. Logical languages define precisly what you are > > > thinking about. That means that the majority of the time, natural > > > language speakers are forced to be confused about what they mean. > > > > I agree with what M@ and John Clifford have said above. > > > > If the guy sitting in the cubicle next to me exclaims "Windows crashed > > on me again!", I am not for one millisecond going to think that he was > > struck by falling panes of glass. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org > > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. > > > > > > > -- > ta'o(by the way) We With You Network at: http://lokiworld.org .i(and) > more on Lojban: http://lojban.org > mu'oimi'e lOkadin (Over, my name is lOkadin) > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.